On 02 Jan 2011, at 11:31, silky wrote:

On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 8:31 PM, Brian Tenneson <tenn...@gmail.com> wrote:
In the case of a TOE, the model IS reality.

Okay, I won't reply further, this has become irrelevant noise.


I suspect the traditional confusion between "model" in the sense of physicists (where model = a theory, like a toy model), and model in the sense of the logician, where model = the reality studied (like a woman serving as model for a painter, or the mathematical structure (N, +, x) for PA or RA).

Logicians and physicists use the word "model" in the complete opposite sense, and this leads often to complete deaf dialog.

This makes even more problem with computationalism, where an observer accept that some "theories/brains/finite-describable-objects" fits the reality. When you say "yes" to the doctor, it is because you believe that the artificial brain does capture (locally, with respect to your current environment) the real thing (your conscious you). In that case *you* are a fixed point where a model-theory correspond to a model- reality, a bit like in Brouwer fixed point theorem, where a map of a territory is shown to have a point on it matching the real point in the territory, provided the map is not ripped in two disconnected parts, but only transformed continuously. The point is that in some contexts some overlap can exist between a theory and its (or one of its) model, between description and realities, like with the painting of a painting of a pipe (cf Magritte).

Things get confusing also if, like Brian, (but also logicians in some circumstances) people makes a model (a "reality") into a (non effective) theory. This can be justified for some technical reason, when working on super non effective structure, but is really out of topic, imo.

Bruno





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silky

http://dnoondt.wordpress.com/ (Noon Silk) | http://www.mirios.com.au:8081 >

"Every morning when I wake up, I experience an exquisite joy — the joy
of being this signature."

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



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