On 09 Mar 2011, at 20:51, Brent Meeker wrote:
On 3/9/2011 9:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
I can see why in a movie they do not, as there is no mathematical
relation between the frames.
OK. Nice.
But they do have a relation via the thing that was filmed.
The point consists in showing that the projection of the movie does
not generate consciousness. Not that consciousness did not exist in
relation with the movie. With the movie, we can upload the boolean
plane machine, and make that consciousness again manifested. But the
movie itself does not compute anything. It describes a computation and
consciousness is in the computation, not in the description of the
computation. The relation between the movie and the computation is
akin to the relation between a proof and the Gödel number of that
proof. They are related, but they are not the same thing.
It is a subtle point. It is nicely capture formally with the self-
reference logic, where we can show that p <-> Bp, but only because we
know that the machine is correct (by definition or choice). The
machine cannot know that.
Then I showed that a movie is a relative thing. for an observer, there
is a movie in front of a immobile spectator, but for another observer
there is an immobile pellicle with a moving observer. But comp makes
the observer's presence not needed, so that the consciousness cannot
supervene on the "running of the movie", given that for another
observer there is no running at all.
Of course the movie displays the same physical activity as the boolean
graph, and this means that consciousness, if we keep comp, has to be
related to the abstract computation, not on his implementation is such
or such universal system.
But then consciousness, pain, qualia are often considered as abstract/
immaterial, so it is not so astonishing that we have to identify it
with abstract relation that a person/machine can have with herself.
But this means that we have to solve the mind-body problem by
explaining the "illusion of matter" from the consciousness, and not
the contrary.
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
