On 06 Mar 2011, at 14:18, Andrew Soltau wrote:

On 07/02/11 15:22, Bruno Marchal wrote:This is what seems straightforward to me. Thought is a computation. OK. Experiential reality is a computation. OK.No. When you say "experiential reality" is a computation, you aresaying something ambiguous, where comp is far more precise. Becauseif I can survive with a digital brain, then the experientialreality, the first person, subjective, experience is not aattachable to a computation, but to an infinity of computations,and it obeys a logic driven by the knowing arithmetical points ofview, which makes it closer to the non computable notion of "innergod" than to a 3-person computation. The first person cannot evendescribe (or name, in the logician terms) itself.Yes! As Everett demonstrates, experiential reality is essentially avery simple computation.

?

`Everett reduces it to the memory mechanism (a bit like in the first`

`step of the UD Argument). But this is not a computation, nor does it`

`explain what is experential. And it relies on a non computable notion`

`of "all consistent observation", which is not computable by the`

`observer itself.`

It is the addition of each new observation to the record ofobservations.

That is not computable. It might be computable with oracle.

The not so simple bit is the computation of each new observation,though in the Everything concept it is relatively simple, since itis simply all possible observations.

`We have discussed a lot about the difficulty of the word "all", and`

`"possible".`

I think I quoted this before, but this is the computation. void transtemporal_reality () { /* Initialisation */ Boolean new_observation = true; Observation observation = LIGHT; Functional_Identity observer = 1; World world_hologram = NO_OBSERVATIONS; Correlations_Record observables[]; Quantum_State ψ; Elapsed_Time t = 0; int c = 0; while (observer != 0) {/* Process 1 - Quantum time - Change of quantum mechanical frameof reference */if ( new_observation ) { world_hologram = world_hologram + observation; display (world_hologram); observer = observer + observation; observables[c++] = observation; ψ = quantum_state_defined_by (observables) new_observation = false; }/* Process 2 - Space-time time - Change of inertial frame ofreference */else { t = t + PLANCK_TIME new_observation = compute_neural_state (ψ, t); if ( new_observation) observation = get_sensorium_contents(); break; } } }If variables ψ, observation, and observables[], and functionget_sensorium_contents() were instantiated in suitably coherentmemory of a quantum computer, such a program would produce thesubjective realities of all possible functional identities of anobserver, in the form of Everett's branching tree of memoryconfigurations.It should be noted that objectively, in a no-collapse universe, ψ isproperly a pointer, or reference, to a pre-existing quantum state,and that the implementation of the statementnew_observation = compute_neural_state (ψ, t);is simply reading a specific attribute of that quantum state, asfrom a lookup table. This works very nicely given that eachobservable is a correlation with a specific quantum state of theenvironment, the correlations record being the simultaneity of allsuch correlations: a set of commuting operators.Simple or not, this does not seem ambiguous.

`OK, very cute, but you assume ψ as oracle, and even a sort of space-`

`time, which is the treachery I told you about. But to understand why`

`it is "treachery", and why it put the (mind) body problem under the`

`rug, you need to study the step seven, and for this you need to`

`understand completely the first person indeterminacy.`

Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.