Stathis wrote: *"So you agree that chemistry, which is all that the brain contains, is **no more magical than electronics?"* * * * - - - -O B J E C T I O N ! - - -* you added "which is all that the brain contains" smuggled into my position, which contains ...all we know today and include into the term 'brain' as our conventional science C A N handle it. I don't know how 'magical' anything can be. he unknown is not magical. We (OOPS: IBM) constructed the electronics to perform whatever we want it to perform in our present knowledge. WE (and that is "us") did not construct the brain, especially not the 'so called' (tool for) BRAINFUNCTIONS so far unknown in toto. I would not agree even with a gun to my head. What can you do? shoot me? So what? In my belief system there is no afterlife. Even doubts for 'this' one.
John * * * * On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 7:16 AM, Stathis Papaioannou <stath...@gmail.com>wrote: > On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 5:01 AM, John Mikes <jami...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Stathis, allow me to barge in before Craig. > > I am glad you ask - the wrong question, > > I am not FOR the brain to think, it is a tool working in the process we > did > > not so far deciphered. (That's exactly MY agnosticism). So we are talking > > about tools, be it 'chemistry' (an explanational figment of conventional > > sciences for pheomena so far only partially learned, but "scientificall" > > explained (almost!) into atomic etc. theories and math), - or > 'electronic' > > devises we construct with capabilities to do exactly what we expect from > > them to do. > > Maybe the IBM Synapse can do at least as well as we get the results from > > 'brainwork'. > > I would not assign 'creativity' to chemistry (what I practiced and > learned) > > only 'applications'. > > There is one item that startles me in this respect: Robert Rosen's (Mihai > > Nadin's) initial work on Anticipatory Systems where anticipation is an > > unprecedented 'barging-in' beyond the given circumstances (allegedly). > > I am willing to go as far as a "slight shaving" beyond the borders of our > > known limitations - into the 'right-or-wrong' unknowable to be checked > > (better: verified) later on. We see abundant bad anticipation in > economic. > > genetic and political etc. assumptions to make us careful in > anticipation. > > If so many anticipation goes wrong, the conventional "foretelling" has to > be > > taken with a spoon-full of scrutiny. > > A question in your profession: would you vouch for our present knowledge > to > > have deciphered all that is to mentality by the so far discovered > > brain-organ's functional data? > > (And I want to be restricted here to physical measurements/data only). > > No, we are nowhere near a complete correlation between the mental and > the physical. But that does not mean there is no correlation. > > > You asked a question: > > "As a chemist, have you seen any special magic in chemical > > reactions that might explain the brain's ability to think?" > > No, but I have encountered questions about > > 1. what does it mean "to think" (and all its cousins) > > 2. how is the 'hard problem' answerable? (transition from milliamps etc. > to > > ideas) > > 3. what mechanism (if...) is stronger than the neuronal brain to decide > e.g. > > self destruct? > > 4. has 'creativity' the same meaning in our vocabularies? > > 5 - 1000 I save those. > > So you agree that chemistry, which is all that the brain contains, is > no more magical than electronics? > > -- > Stathis Papaioannou > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.