On Aug 23, 5:53 pm, John Mikes <jami...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Stathis wrote:
> *"So you agree that chemistry, which is all that the brain contains, is
> **no more magical than electronics?"*
> *
> *
> * - - - -O B J E C T I O N ! - - -*
> you added "which is all that the brain contains" smuggled into my position,
> which contains ...all we know today and include into the term 'brain' as our
> conventional science  C A N  handle it.

I second that. Whatever we say that the brain contains - chemistry,
biology, physics, that thing must also contain or give access to
feelings, thoughts, and meaning. To say it's magic is something of an
understatement. Magic would be mere teleportation or time travel -
things which cheat physics but still play the same game What
subjective feeling does, through the invention of pain and pleasure,
sound and vision and all the rest is far, far beyond any mere

In a quintillion years no computation could dream up the smell of a
pine tree out of 1s and 0s. If you want to know what computation looks
like without awareness, watch a Mandlebrot simulation where all the
colors are the same shade of black. Without awareness, there is no
pattern, and pattern is not any more local to the brain than it is
anywhere else - pattern is everywhere and everything.

Also we seem to overlook that if it were true that 'chemistry' is all
that the brain contains, then that would mean that the idea of the
brain itself, our understanding of it, is just another delusional
perception; a figment of Darwinian happenstance which masquerades as
thought in our imaginary world but can really only be a string of
neurological interactions conjured by the brain for the body's
evolutionary purposes. If our experience is not real, then neither is
our shared fantasy about what causes that experience. Only if the mind
in some way directly senses integrates and chooses to act upon it's
experience can anything we say about the mind be meaningful. Otherwise
it's not really us reading or writing, it's not really our fingers
typing, it's just a-signifying variations of neurological flux sifting
over itself forever, for no reason, with no stories to tell and no
lives to live. Simulated participation in Platonia. Bah!


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