On 23 Mar 2012, at 17:34, John Mikes wrote:
Bruno:
thanks for the considerate reply. Let me pick some of your sentences:
2^16 parallel universes needed to implement the
quantum superposition - used in Shor's quantum algorithm
to find the prime factors of numbers.
I would not limit the numbers and fix the quality of future
development.
Me neither.
Nor do I take it for granted that today's logic in math
(arithmetics) will hold.
Which logics? Classical logic?
In which logic will you describe the change of logics.
Not sure that I can give meaning to your sentence here, John. You seem
to believe in some absolute logic to make sense of change in logic.
I have few doubts that quantum computers will appear, but I am
quite uncertain if it is for this century of for the next
millennium.
Ihave more faith in 'the new': maybe that will be something better
than today's uncertainty-riding "quantum" idea.
We can only *assume* theories, and then we can hope we will see them
to be refuted. That's how we learn. But this means we have to take our
theories seriously, which does not mean "true".
Bruno
John M
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
wrote:
On 14 Mar 2012, at 21:41, John Mikes wrote:
Brent and Bruno:
you both have statements in this endless discussion about
processing ideas of quantum computers.
I would be happy to read about ONE that works, not a s a
potentiality, but as a real tool, the function of which is
understood and APPLIED. (Here, on Earth).
It is an *immense* technical challenge. Up to now, a quantum circuit
has only succeeded in showing that 15 is equal to 3*5, which might
seems ridiculous for todays applied computing domains, but which is
still an extraordinary technical prowess as it involves handling of
the 2^16 parallel universes needed to implement the quantum
superposition used in Shor's quantum algorithm to find the prime
factors of numbers.
The amazing thing is that all the arguments of unfeasibility of
quantum computers have been overcome by quantum software, like the
quantum error corrections, and the topological fault tolerant
quantum machinery.
I have few doubts that quantum computers will appear, but I am quite
uncertain if it is for this century of for the next millennium. But
bigger quantum circuits will emerge this century, and quantum
cryptographic technic might already exist, but that's a military
secret, and a banker secret :).
There is also some prospect to discover quantum machinery operating
in nature. I read some times ago, that a super-heavy object has been
discovered which structure seemed to have to be unstable for much
physicists and some have elaborated models in which quarks are
exploiting a quantum-computational game to attain stability.
And then, to make happy Stephen, the "not very plausible yet not
entirely excluded despite what Tegmark argues" possibility that life
exploits quantum algorithm. See for example the two following papers
referred to in my today's mail:
1) Clark, K.B. (2010). Bose-Einstein condensates form in heuristics
learned by ciliates deciding to signal 'social' commitments.
BioSystems, 99(3), 167-178. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19883726
2) Clark, K.B. (2010). Arrhenius-kinetics evidence for quantum
tunneling in microbial "social" decision rates. Communicative &
Integtrative Biology, 3(6), 540-544. http://www.landesbioscience.com/journals/cib/article/12842
I am skeptical to be franc. Not too much time to dig on this for
now. The second is freely available. if someone want to comment on
it, please do.
Bruno
On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 10:51 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net>
wrote:
On 3/12/2012 7:16 PM, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 3/12/2012 10:00 PM, meekerdb wrote:
On 3/11/2012 11:41 PM, Stephen P. King wrote:
An Evil Wizard could pop into my vicinity and banish me to
the Nether plane! A "magical act", if real and just part of a
story, is an event that violates some conservation law. I don't
see what else would constitute magic... My point is that Harry
Potterisms would introduce cul-de-sacs that would totally screw
up the statistics and measures, so they have to be banished.
Because otherwise things would be screwed up?
Chain-wise consistency and concurrency rules would prevent these
pathologies, but to get them we have to consider multiple and
disjoint observers and not just "shared" 1p as such implicitly
assume an absolute frame of reference. Basically we need both
conservation laws and general covariance. Do we obtain that
naturally from COMP? That's an open question.
You seem to be begging the question: We need regularity,
otherwise things wouldn't be regular.
No, you are dodging the real question: How is the measure
defined?
The obvious way is that all non-self-contradictory events are
equally likely. But that's hypothesized, not defined. I'm not sure
why you are asking how it's defined. The usual definition is an
assignment of a number in [0,1] to every member of a Borel set such
that they satisfies Kolmogorov's axioms.
If it is imposed by fiat, say so and defend the claim. Why is it
so hard to get you to consider multiple observers and consider the
question as to how exactly do they interact? Al of the discussion
that I have seen so far considers a single observer and
abstractions about other people. The most I am getting is the word
"plurality". Is this difficult? Really?
It's difficult because people are trying to explain 'other people'
and taking only their own consciousness as given. If you're going
to assume other people, why not assume physics too?
Brent
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