Craig, Can you give us a synopsis of the consciousness conference? Is there any convergence of their thinking or is it still rather scattered? Richard
On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 1:19 PM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com>wrote: > On Apr 24, 8:59 am, Stathis Papaioannou <stath...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 12:49 AM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > >> But are decisions that a person makes freely caused or uncaused? > > > > > Both and neither. Just as a yellow traffic signal is neither red nor > > > green but represents possibilities of both stop and go. We are the > > > cause. We are influenced by causes but to varying degrees. We > > > influence our body and by extension the world with varying degrees of > > > freedom. > > > > EITHER something is determined/caused OR it's random/uncaused. This is > > standard use of language. You can define your own terms but then at > > least you should explain them in relation to the standard language: > > "what everyone else calls green, I call red, and what everyone else > > calls a dog, I call a cat". > > It is a standard use of language to say that people are responsible in > varying degrees for their actions. I don't understand why you claim > that your binary determinism is 'standard language' in some way. When > we talk about someone being guilty of a crime, that quality of guilt > makes no sense in terms of being passively caused or randomly > uncaused. It is you who should explain your ideas in relation to the > standard language: "what everyone else calls intention, I call > irrelevant." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> By this reasoning nothing can ever have an adequate explanation, > since > > >> >> if the explanation offered for A is B, you can always ask, "But why > > >> >> should B apply to A?"; and if the answer is given, "Because > empirical > > >> >> observation shows that it is so" you can dismiss it as > unsatisfactory. > > > > >> > It depends what A and B are. If A is a cloud and B is rain, then you > > >> > can see that there could be a connection. If A is a neural fiber > and B > > >> > is an experience of blue, then there is a gigantic gap separating > the > > >> > two which can't be bridged just because we are used to looking at > > >> > physical objects relating to other physical objects and think it > would > > >> > be convenient if subjects behaved that way as well. > > > > >> If you're bloody-minded enough you can claim here isn't really an > > >> obvious connection between clouds and rain either. > > > > > Sure, it's a matter of degree. If I squeeze an orange, it follows very > > > logically that what comes out of it is orange juice. If I poke a > > > microorganism like a neuron with an electrode, it does not follow very > > > logically at all that comedy, symphonies or the smell of pineapple > > > should ensue. At some point you have to decide whether sanity is real > > > or reality is insane. I choose the former. > > > > But it's an empirical observation that if certain biochemical > > reactions occur (the ones involved in processing information) , > > consciousness results. That you find it mysterious is your problem, > > not nature's. > > If I turn on a TV set, TV programs occur. That doesn't mean that TV > programs are generated by electronics. Fortunately I just spent a week > at the consciousness conference in AZ so I now know how deeply in the > minority views such as yours are. The vast majority of doctors and > professors researching in this field agree that the Explanatory Gap > cannot simply be wished away in the manner you suggest. I don't find > it mysterious at all that consciousness could come from configurations > of objects, I find it impossible, as do most people. > > Craig > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.