On 30 May 2012, at 18:16, meekerdb wrote:

On 5/30/2012 1:38 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:On 29 May 2012, at 22:41, meekerdb wrote:On 5/29/2012 1:26 PM, Jason Resch wrote:On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Bruno Marchal<marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:To see this the following thought experience can help. Some guywon a price consisting in visiting Mars by teleportation. But hisstate law forbid annihilation of human. So he made ateleportation to Mars without annihilation. The version of Marsis very happy, and the version of earth complained, and so tryagain and again, and again ... You are the observer, and fromyour point of view, you can of course only see the guy who gotthe feeling to be infinitely unlucky, as if P = 1/2, staying onearth for n experience has probability 1/2^n (that the HarryPotter experience). Assuming the infinite iteration, the guy as aprobability near one to go quickly on Mars.Bruno,Thanks for your very detailed reply in the other thread, I intendto get back to it later, but I had a strange thought whilereading about the above experiment that I wanted to clear up.You mentioned that the probability of remaining on Earth is(1/2)^n, where n is the number of teleportations. I can seeclearly that the probability of remaining on earth after thefirst teleportation is 50%, but as the teleportations continue,does it remain 50%? Let's say that N = 5, therefore there are 5copies on Mars, and 1 copy on earth. Wouldn't the probability ofremaining on Earth be equal to 1/6th?While I can see it this way, I can also shift my perspective sothat I see the probability as 1/32 (since each time the teleportbutton is pressed, I split in two). It is easier for me to seehow this works in quantum mechanics under the following experiment:I choose 5 different electrons and measure the spin on the y-axis, the probability that I measure all 5 to be in the up stateis 1 in 32 (as I have caused 5 splittings), but what if theexperiment is: measure the spin states of up to 5 electrons, butstop once you find one in the up state. In this case it seemsthere are 6 copies of me, with the following records:1. D 2. DU 3. DDU 4. DDDU 5. DDDDU 6. DDDDDHowever, not all of these copies should have the same measure.The way I see it is they have the following probabilities:1. D (1/2) 2. DU (1/4) 3. DDU (1/8) 4. DDDU (1/16) 5. DDDDU (1/32) 6. DDDDD (1/32)I suppose what is bothering me is that in the Mars transporterexperiment, it seems the end result (having 1 copy on earth, and5 copies on mars) is no different from the case where thetransporter creates all 5 copies on Mars at once. In that case,it is clear that the chance of remaining on Earth should be(1/6th) but if the beginning and end states of the experiment arethe same, why should it matter if the replication is doneiteratively or all at once? Do RSSA and ASSA make differentpredictions in this case?Thanks, JasonI think you are right, Jason. For the probability to be (1/2^n)implies that there is some single "soul" that is "you" and it'snot really duplicated so that if it went to Mars on the first trythere would be zero probability of it going on the second. Thenthe probability of your "soul" being on Mars is(1/2)+(1/4)+(1/8)+...+(1/2^n).Under the alternative, that "you" really are duplicated theprobability that some "you" chosen at random is on Mars is (n-1/n). But in this case there is really no "you", there are n+1people who have some common history.The probability bears on the first experiences, which are indeednever duplicated from their 1-pov, and we ask for the probabilityof "staying" on earth. It is equivalent with the probability ofalways getting head in a throw of a coin. So, from the perspectiveof the guy who stays on Earth, he is living an Harry-Potter likeexperience.No more than the guys who went to Mars. If they compare experiencesthey will find that although they only had probability 1/2 of ithappening, they all went to Mars.

`They almost all went to Mars ... eventually, with one exception.`

`Besides this was just used in a protocol where the observer is the one`

`looking his friend, that is the exception. It is his 3-view on the 1-`

`view of the guy who never succeed to go on Mars. I have a collection`

`of strategies that he can try, like introducing delays, or using`

`random coin between "original" and "copy", unfortunately for the guy`

`remaining on earth, by "definition", he cannot succeed, and he will`

`have hard time to believe things are not conspiring against his will`

`to go on Mars, and this proportionally to the ingenuity developed to`

`assure to be the one going on Mars.`

`If you make that experience, the chance to go on mars is always rather`

`great, but of course, we, the spectators, will have to live with the`

`unlucky (from its first person view) who remains on earth.`

Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.