On 09 Jul 2012, at 22:01, John Mikes wrote:

Bruno, thanks for your 'views' expressed to Evgeniy below.
"...Why people believe..." I think we agreed that no such thing in our access as a Theory of Everything (omniscience missing) and the figments scientists believe IN are fables.

Probably. In which theory? Or if you prefer: in which fables?



I apologize for writing in brief "Nature" and not as I usually do: "the existence, nature, the world, you name it..."

That might be the object of research. Assuming some well precise "fable".



and for 'humans' in a similar sense, abbreviated from something like: "the portion of the infinite complexity we have actually conscious access to..." (and I am not sure if 'we' - 'you? - have access to all details of other Loebian machines or jumping bugs how THEY exercise mental functions akin to our thinking in this restricted format we apply as our present life (please: don't ask!)

The point is that if you accept comp, then you can prove that all correct entities will obeys to the same laws of mind as very simple Löbian machine that we can undertand from the outside in some semi- complete way, meaning we can many positive things about them, even if we can't prove many negative things. It is a bit like we can understand that a human cells obeys similar laws than bacteria, so that we can learn things on animals and plants by studying first the bacteria, which are more simple.




However I barge in 'asking': what is "rationally"? your word (machine) theology is just another name. If you copy the (religious/ philosophical) theology, we are not ahead and if you presume the infinite capabilities of the 'ultimate' Loebian than we don't (can't) understand the term.

All those entities have finite capabilities, or *potentially* (only) infinite one. "rationally" means that the machine believes in some logic and laws (enough to make it universal in Turing sense).


(Your last par is a 'human'(!) impersonation of a machine.

This is a John-Mikean impersonation of me.

I have no clue why you put *your* boundary on the *human*. I am also a mammal, a living earth creature, a Löbian number (perhaps, if comp is true), a divine word (as a consequence of comp), a universal number, etc.


Just thinking

Just thinking too :)

Bruno


JohnM

On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 9:16 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

On 08 Jul 2012, at 19:29, John Clark wrote (to Evgenii Rudnyi)

If you want to understand why people are the way they are I don't think the Theory-of-Everything would help you much, you'd do much better studding Evolutionary Biology, neurology, or computer science.

Yes, computer science might help to understand why people are the way they are. But computer science, the theory of, and by, universal machines, already must explain, assuming comp, why people believe in fermions and bosons, making it a theory of everything, or at least a good candidate for it, especially if you take into account computer science *and* computer's computer science (that is, what computer can guess or can experience without ever being able to justified rationally: what I like to call "machine's theology, or "Tarski minus Gödel").

If a machine postulates comp, which by definition is true for her, she can already justify rationally, using her bet in comp, why she has beliefs that she cannot justify rationally. Comp itself constitutes such a belief.

Bruno


http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/




--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en .


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en .

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.

Reply via email to