On 09 Jul 2012, at 22:01, John Mikes wrote:
Bruno, thanks for your 'views' expressed to Evgeniy below.
"...Why people believe..." I think we agreed that no such thing in
our access as a Theory of Everything (omniscience missing) and the
figments scientists believe IN are fables.
Probably. In which theory? Or if you prefer: in which fables?
I apologize for writing in brief "Nature" and not as I usually do:
"the existence, nature, the world, you name it..."
That might be the object of research. Assuming some well precise
"fable".
and for 'humans' in a similar sense, abbreviated from something
like: "the portion of the infinite complexity we have actually
conscious access to..." (and I am not sure if 'we' - 'you? - have
access to all details of other Loebian machines or jumping bugs how
THEY exercise mental functions akin to our thinking in this
restricted format we apply as our present life (please: don't ask!)
The point is that if you accept comp, then you can prove that all
correct entities will obeys to the same laws of mind as very simple
Löbian machine that we can undertand from the outside in some semi-
complete way, meaning we can many positive things about them, even if
we can't prove many negative things.
It is a bit like we can understand that a human cells obeys similar
laws than bacteria, so that we can learn things on animals and plants
by studying first the bacteria, which are more simple.
However I barge in 'asking': what is "rationally"? your word
(machine) theology is just another name. If you copy the (religious/
philosophical) theology, we are not ahead and if you presume the
infinite capabilities of the 'ultimate' Loebian than we don't
(can't) understand the term.
All those entities have finite capabilities, or *potentially* (only)
infinite one. "rationally" means that the machine
believes in some logic and laws (enough to make it universal in Turing
sense).
(Your last par is a 'human'(!) impersonation of a machine.
This is a John-Mikean impersonation of me.
I have no clue why you put *your* boundary on the *human*. I am also a
mammal, a living earth creature, a Löbian number (perhaps, if comp is
true), a divine word (as a consequence of comp), a universal number,
etc.
Just thinking
Just thinking too :)
Bruno
JohnM
On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 9:16 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 08 Jul 2012, at 19:29, John Clark wrote (to Evgenii Rudnyi)
If you want to understand why people are the way they are I don't
think the Theory-of-Everything would help you much, you'd do much
better studding Evolutionary Biology, neurology, or computer science.
Yes, computer science might help to understand why people are the
way they are. But computer science, the theory of, and by,
universal machines, already must explain, assuming comp, why people
believe in fermions and bosons, making it a theory of everything, or
at least a good candidate for it, especially if you take into
account computer science *and* computer's computer science (that is,
what computer can guess or can experience without ever being able to
justified rationally: what I like to call "machine's theology, or
"Tarski minus Gödel").
If a machine postulates comp, which by definition is true for her,
she can already justify rationally, using her bet in comp, why she
has beliefs that she cannot justify rationally. Comp itself
constitutes such a belief.
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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