Hi John Clark 

Apparently you fear you will not be able to tell which is true--
and in what cases-- 17th cent philosophical statements or modern science.

As a rule of thumb you might be skeptical about some statements of
17th century philosophers on science. But in some other cases one of them is 
correct.
Which group ? Think. Think. Think.


Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/5/2012 
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him 
so that everything could function."
----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: John Clark 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-09-04, 11:37:36
Subject: Re: There is no such thing as cause and effect


On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:59 AM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote:

?
> The idea that someone considers the sum total of human thought irrelevant 


What on earth? are you talking about? The scribblings of Hume and Leibniz were 
not the sum total of human thought even 300 years ago when they wrote their 
stuff, much less today.


> in the face of the achievements of recent physics 


Yes, the idea that these people could teach a modern physicist anything about 
the nature of matter is idiotic. 


> Is it possible that the architects of the pyramids might have known something 
> that the architects of large hotels don't?

No. And the reasons to build a modern hotel were much much better than the 
reasons to build a big stone pyramid 4500 years ago were. And the hotels were 
successful in doing what they were built to do, giving thousands of people 
shelter when they were in a foreign city; the pyramids were built to protect 
the body of the Pharaoh for eternity but in every case they were looted by 
grave robbers within a decade of their completion.? ? ? 



> Could Shakespeare know something about writing in English that J.K. Rowling 
> doesn't?


The difference between art and science is that there is only one correct 
scientific theory, we may not ever find it but over the years we get closer and 
closer to it, and there is a objective standard to tell the difference between 
a good theory and a bad one; but in art there is not just one good book and the 
difference between a good one and a bad one is subjective. Personally I enjoy 
the writing of J.K. Rowling? more than that of Shakespeare because I don't know 
Elizabethan English and Shakespeare didn't know modern English, but J.K. 
Rowling does. But I'm talking about art so that's just my opinion, your mileage 
may vary.


> The philosophers who you dismiss have a lot more to do with why you know the 
> words cause and effect than does the work of any contemporary physicist. 

Bullshit, Hume and Leibniz knew nothing about Relativity or Quantum Mechanics, 
and even if they did I'm quite certain they would not have liked it, but the 
universe doesn't care what the preferences of 2 members of the species Homo 
sapiens are, the world just keeps behaving that way anyway and if those people 
don't like it they can lump it.



> They formulated the way that we think about it to this day, far more 
> successfully I might add, then the muddle of conflicting interpretations and 
> shoulder shrugging mysticism that has come out of quantum mechanics. 

They were successful in formulating ideas that seemed intuitively true to most 
people, but unfortunately nature found the ideas much less intuitive than 
people do. Philosophers churned out ideas that seemed reasonable but it turned 
out the Universe didn't give a damn about being reasonable or if human beings 
thought the way it operated was crazy or not. Those philosophers said things 
that made people comfortable but that's just not the way things are and being 
fat dumb and happy is no way to live your life.


> I don't care much for elevating the past either, but the more I see of the 
> originality and vision of philosophers

Originality and vision philosophers may have had but they were also dead 
wrong.? Regardless of how appealing those philosophers ideas were if they don't 
fit the facts they have to go because just one stubborn fact can destroy even 
the most beautiful theory.

? John K Clark 




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