On Thursday, October 11, 2012 11:05:23 AM UTC-4, John Clark wrote:
> > Consciousness is easy if you already have consciousness. It is
>> impossible if you don't.
> But you believe in "panexperientialism", you believe that everything is
> conscious, so if you are correct then consciousness is not only possible
> it's easy. QED.
We are saying the same thing but you are not acknowledging that you assume
consciousness. I acknowledge that we have no choice but to assume some kind
> > Everything assumes that consciousness exists as a possibility in the
> It's not a assumption it's a fact that for consciousness to exist there
> must have been a time when the possibility of the existence of
> consciousness existed. In a similar way some religious types have
> criticized Krauss's book "A Universe From Nothing" because it's not really
> nothing, its just from very very little because Krauss had to start from a
> place where there was at least the potential for something, and they insist
> that very potential is something. Apparently those same religious types
> don't consider God to be something, and for once I agree with them.
I say they are both wrong. Physics and God are both arbitrary somethings
that are no more of an explanation of the universe than just starting from
what it is right now and saying 'ta dah!'. If you start with sense though,
you don't have that problem. It's a whole shift in mindset. You have to
essentially realize that one is the first number, not zero - that all of
arithmetic exists as fractions within the number one.
> > prior to the existence of the universe
> It's not clear what that means. Without the universe you can't have time
> because time involves change and if nothing exists then nothing changes;
> and without time the word "prior" has no meaning.
Think of it this way. Time is not change, but rather a limitation on the
scope of attention which sweeps away the experiences into a non-present.
Before time, there is no non-present. It's all present.
> John K Clark
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