life, consciousness, free will, intelligence I try to give a phsical definition of each one:
Life: whathever that maintain its internal entropy in a non trivial way (A diamant is not alive). That is, to make use of hardwired and adquired information to maintain the internal entropy by making use of low entropic matter in the environment. Consciousness: To avoid dangers he has to identify chemical agents, for example, but also (predators that may consider him as a prey. While non teleológical dangers, like chemicals, can be avoided with simple reactions, teleológical dangers, like the predators are different. He has to go a step further than automatic responses, because he has to deliberate between fight of flight, depending on its perceived internal state: healt, size, wether he has breeding descendence to protect etc. He needs to know the state of himself, as well as the boundary of his body. He has to calibrate the menace by looking at the reactions of the predator when he see its own reactions. there is a processing of "I do this- he is responding with that", at some level. So a primitive consciouness probably started with predation. that is not self consciousness in the human sense. Self consciousness manages an history of the self that consciousness do not. Free will: There are many dylemmas that living beings must confront, like fight of flight: For example, to abandon an wounded cub or not, to pass the river infested of crocodriles in orde to reach the green pastures in the other side etc. many of these reactions are automatic, like fight and fligh. because speed of response is very important (Even most humans report this automatism of behaviour when had a traumatic experience). But other dilemmas are not. A primitive perception of an internal conflict (that is free will) may appear in animals who had the luxury of having time for considerating either one course of action or the other, in order to get enough data. This is not very common in the animal kingdom, where life is short and decission have to be fast. Probably only animals with a long life span with a social protection can evolve such internal conflict. When there is no time to spend, even humans act automatically. If you want to know how an animal feel, go to a conflict zone. Intelligence: The impulse of curiosity and the hability to elaborate activities with the exclusive goal of learning and adquiring experience, rather than direct survivival. of course that curiositiy is not arbitrary but focused in promising activities that learn something valuable for survival. A cat would inspect a new furniture. Because its impulse for curiosity is towards the search of locations for hiding, watch and shelter and for the knowledge of the surroundings. That is intelligence, but a focused intelligence. It is not general intelligence.We have also a focused curiosity but it is not so narrow. Alberto 2012/10/11 Russell Standish <li...@hpcoders.com.au> > On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 10:13:06AM -0400, Roger Clough wrote: > > Hi Evgenii Rudnyi > > > > The following components are inextricably mixed: > > > > life, consciousness, free will, intelligence > > > > you can't have one without the others, > > I disagree. You can have life without any of the others. Also, I > suspect you can have intelligence without life, and intelligence > without consciousness. > > > and (or because) they're all nonphysical, all subjective. > > Yes - they share those in common, as do a lot of other concepts such > as emergence, complexity, information, entropy, creativity and so on. > > > So only the computer can know for sure if it > > has any of these. > > > > > > Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net > > 10/11/2012 > > "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen > > > > > > ----- Receiving the following content ----- > > From: Evgenii Rudnyi > > Receiver: everything-list > > Time: 2012-10-11, 07:58:57 > > Subject: Re: Conscious robots > > > > > > On 11.10.2012 11:36 Evgenii Rudnyi said the following: > > > On 26.09.2012 20:35 meekerdb said the following: > > >> An interesting paper which comports with my idea that "the problem > > >> of consciousness" will be "solved" by engineering. Or John > > >> Clark's point that consciousness is easy, intelligence is hard. > > >> > > >> Consciousness in Cognitive Architectures A Principled Analysis of > > >> RCS, Soar and ACT-R > > >> > > > > > > I have started reading the paper. Thanks a lot for the link. > > > > > > > I have finished reading the paper. I should say that I am not impressed. > > First, interestingly enough > > > > p. 30 "The observer selects a system according to a set of main features > > which we shall call traits." > > > > Presumably this means that without an observer a system does not exist. > > In a way it is logical as without a human being what is available is > > just an ensemble of interacting strings. > > > > Now let me make some quotes to show you what the authors mean by > > consciousness in the order they appear in the paper. > > > > p. 45 "This makes that, in reality, the state of the environment, from > > the point of view of the system, will not only consist of the values of > > the coupling quantities, but also of its conceptual representations of > > it. We shall call this the subjective state of the environment." > > > > p. 52 "These principles, biologically inspired by the old metaphor ?r > > not so metaphor but an actual functional definition? of the brain-mind > > pair as the controller-control laws of the body ?he plant?, provides a > > base characterisation of cognitive or intelligent control." > > > > p. 60 "Principle 5: Model-driven perception ? Perception is the > > continuous update of the integrated models used by the agent in a > > model-based cognitive control architecture by means of real-time > > sensorial information." > > > > p. 61 "Principle 6: System awareness? system is aware if it is > > continuously perceiving and generating meaning from the countinuously > > updated models." > > > > p. 62 "Awareness implies the partitioning of predicted futures and > > postdicted pasts by a value function. This partitioning we call meaning > > of the update to the model." > > > > p. 65 "Principle 7: System attention ? Attentional mechanisms allocate > > both physical and cognitive resources for system processes so as to > > maximise performance." > > > > p. 116 "From this perspective, the analysis proceeds in a similar way: > > if modelbased behaviour gives adaptive value to a system interacting > > with an object, it will give also value when the object modelled is the > > system itself. This gives rise to metacognition in the form of > > metacontrol loops that will improve operation of the system overall." > > > > p. 117 "Principle 8: System self-awareness/consciousness ? A system is > > conscious if it is continuously generating meanings from continously > > updated self-models in a model-based cognitive control architecture." > > > > p. 122 'Now suppose that for adding consciousness to the operation of > > the system we add new processes that monitor, evaluate and reflect the > > operation of the ?nconscious? normal processes (Fig. > > fig:cons-processes). We shall call these processes the ?onscious? ones.' > > > > If I understood it correctly, the authors when they develop software > > just mark some bits as a subjective state and some processes as > > conscious. Voil?! We have a conscious robot. > > > > Let us see what happens. > > > > Evgenii > > -- > > > http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2012/10/consciousness-in-cognitive-architectures.html > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Everything List" group. > > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Everything List" group. > > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > -- > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) > Principal, High Performance Coders > Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au > University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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