Hi Russell Standish  

Life cannot survive without making choices,
like where to go next. To avoid an enemy. To get food.

This act of life obviously requires an autonomous choice. 
Nobody can make it for you.  It can't be pre-programmed.

Free autonomous choice is a description in my view of intelligence.

QED

Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
10/12/2012  
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 


----- Receiving the following content -----  
From: Russell Standish  
Receiver: everything-list  
Time: 2012-10-11, 16:53:42 
Subject: Re: Re: Conscious robots 


On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 10:13:06AM -0400, Roger Clough wrote: 
> Hi Evgenii Rudnyi  
>  
> The following components are inextricably mixed: 
>  
> life, consciousness, free will, intelligence 
>  
> you can't have one without the others, 

I disagree. You can have life without any of the others. Also, I 
suspect you can have intelligence without life, and intelligence 
without consciousness. 

> and (or because) they're all nonphysical, all subjective. 

Yes - they share those in common, as do a lot of other concepts such 
as emergence, complexity, information, entropy, creativity and so on. 

> So only the computer can know for sure if it  
> has any of these. 
>  
>  
> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net  
> 10/11/2012  
> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen  
>  
>  
> ----- Receiving the following content -----  
> From: Evgenii Rudnyi  
> Receiver: everything-list  
> Time: 2012-10-11, 07:58:57  
> Subject: Re: Conscious robots  
>  
>  
> On 11.10.2012 11:36 Evgenii Rudnyi said the following:  
> > On 26.09.2012 20:35 meekerdb said the following:  
> >> An interesting paper which comports with my idea that "the problem  
> >> of consciousness" will be "solved" by engineering. Or John  
> >> Clark's point that consciousness is easy, intelligence is hard.  
> >>  
> >> Consciousness in Cognitive Architectures A Principled Analysis of  
> >> RCS, Soar and ACT-R  
> >>  
> >  
> > I have started reading the paper. Thanks a lot for the link.  
> >  
>  
> I have finished reading the paper. I should say that I am not impressed.  
> First, interestingly enough  
>  
> p. 30 "The observer selects a system according to a set of main features  
> which we shall call traits."  
>  
> Presumably this means that without an observer a system does not exist.  
> In a way it is logical as without a human being what is available is  
> just an ensemble of interacting strings.  
>  
> Now let me make some quotes to show you what the authors mean by  
> consciousness in the order they appear in the paper.  
>  
> p. 45 "This makes that, in reality, the state of the environment, from  
> the point of view of the system, will not only consist of the values of  
> the coupling quantities, but also of its conceptual representations of  
> it. We shall call this the subjective state of the environment."  
>  
> p. 52 "These principles, biologically inspired by the old metaphor ?r  
> not so metaphor but an actual functional definition? of the brain-mind  
> pair as the controller-control laws of the body ?he plant?, provides a  
> base characterisation of cognitive or intelligent control."  
>  
> p. 60 "Principle 5: Model-driven perception ? Perception is the  
> continuous update of the integrated models used by the agent in a  
> model-based cognitive control architecture by means of real-time  
> sensorial information."  
>  
> p. 61 "Principle 6: System awareness? system is aware if it is  
> continuously perceiving and generating meaning from the countinuously  
> updated models."  
>  
> p. 62 "Awareness implies the partitioning of predicted futures and  
> postdicted pasts by a value function. This partitioning we call meaning  
> of the update to the model."  
>  
> p. 65 "Principle 7: System attention ? Attentional mechanisms allocate  
> both physical and cognitive resources for system processes so as to  
> maximise performance."  
>  
> p. 116 "From this perspective, the analysis proceeds in a similar way:  
> if modelbased behaviour gives adaptive value to a system interacting  
> with an object, it will give also value when the object modelled is the  
> system itself. This gives rise to metacognition in the form of  
> metacontrol loops that will improve operation of the system overall."  
>  
> p. 117 "Principle 8: System self-awareness/consciousness ? A system is  
> conscious if it is continuously generating meanings from continously  
> updated self-models in a model-based cognitive control architecture."  
>  
> p. 122 'Now suppose that for adding consciousness to the operation of  
> the system we add new processes that monitor, evaluate and reflect the  
> operation of the ?nconscious? normal processes (Fig.  
> fig:cons-processes). We shall call these processes the ?onscious? ones.'  
>  
> If I understood it correctly, the authors when they develop software  
> just mark some bits as a subjective state and some processes as  
> conscious. Voil?! We have a conscious robot.  
>  
> Let us see what happens.  
>  
> Evgenii  
> --  
> http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2012/10/consciousness-in-cognitive-architectures.html  
>  
> --  
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Everything List" group.  
> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.  
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.  
> For more options, visit this group at 
> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. 
>  
> --  
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Everything List" group. 
> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. 
> For more options, visit this group at 
> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. 

--  

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) 
Principal, High Performance Coders 
Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au 
University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

--  
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group. 
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. 
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. 
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.

Reply via email to