On 14.10.2012 01:46 Russell Standish said the following:

On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 12:16:06PM +0200, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:Another question here would be who will divide the state space to a bacterium and environment. Let us imagine that we have implemented somehow a bacterium in Game of Life (or even better in Continuous Game of Life). What is meaning of "A bacterium travels" when there is no human observer?Or let me can put it this way. To find out whether a bacterium is there and to find out its coordinates, one could imagine an extra algorithms that analyses the state space of for example Continuous Game of Life. Now we run two different simulations. 1) Continuous Game of Life as it is. 2) Continuous Game of Life with an extra algorithm to find out if a bacterium is there and to report coordinates of the bacterium. Is there any difference between 1) and 2)?A very pertinent question. I wish I knew the answer (myself and many others too!). There is a sort of proto-answer in the work of Jim Crutchfield. It is possible (sort of) to come up with a workable definition of emergence that doesn't require the presence of an observer (or rather he has a metric to indicate what sorts of things are likely to be interesting to an abstract observer - my emphasis).

Do you know some papers/books that discuss this question in depth? I have taken this idea from

`Raymond Tallis, Aping Mankind: Neuromania, Darwinitis and the`

`Misrepresentation of Humanity`

where it was expressed just in a general manner. Doesn't this mean, that simulations kind of 1) are dead ends? Evgenii -- http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2012/10/aping-mankind.html -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.