On 14.10.2012 01:46 Russell Standish said the following:
On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 12:16:06PM +0200, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
Another question here would be who will divide the state space to
a bacterium and environment. Let us imagine that we have
implemented somehow a bacterium in Game of Life (or even better in
Continuous Game of Life). What is meaning of "A bacterium travels"
when there is no human observer?

Or let me can put it this way. To find out whether a bacterium is
there and to find out its coordinates, one could imagine an extra
algorithms that analyses the state space of for example Continuous
Game of Life. Now we run two different simulations.

1) Continuous Game of Life as it is.

2) Continuous Game of Life with an extra algorithm to find out if
a bacterium is there and to report coordinates of the bacterium.

Is there any difference between 1) and 2)?


A very pertinent question. I wish I knew the answer (myself and many
others too!).

There is a sort of proto-answer in the work of Jim Crutchfield. It
is possible (sort of) to come up with a workable definition of
emergence that doesn't require the presence of an observer (or rather
he has a metric to indicate what sorts of things are likely to be
interesting to an abstract observer - my emphasis).


Do you know some papers/books that discuss this question in depth?

I have taken this idea from

Raymond Tallis, Aping Mankind: Neuromania, Darwinitis and the Misrepresentation of Humanity

where it was expressed just in a general manner.

Doesn't this mean, that simulations kind of 1) are dead ends?

Evgenii
--
http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2012/10/aping-mankind.html

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