Hi Bruno Marchal My problem with autopoesis is that it only deals with 3p (the outer, objective world) but not with 1p (the inner, subjective world).
Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/17/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen ----- Receiving the following content ----- From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-16, 09:34:51 Subject: Re: Computational Autopoetics 1 On 14 Oct 2012, at 22:44, Roger Clough wrote: > "Computational Autopoetics" is a term I just coined to denote > applying basic concepts > of autopoetics to the field of comp. You mathematicians are free to > do it more justice > than I can. I cannot guarantee that the idea hasn't already been > exploited, but I have > seen no indication of that. Autopoesis is natural in comp, by the second recursion theorem, indeed. I explained this to Varella, years ago, and he did agree with this. He was aware of the work by Judson Webb on this subject. Now, some people oppose autopoesis and the computer science approach, but they are to verbal and unconvincing for me. As I said the "auto", or "self'" is what computer science masters the better, and if you read the seocnd part of sane04, you light understand the basis for this. > > The idea is this: that we borrow a basic characteristic of > autopoetics, namely that life is > essentially not a thing but the act of creation. This means that we > define > life as the creative act of generating structure from some input > data. By this > pramatic definition, it is not necessarily the structure that is > produced that is alive, but > life consists of the act of creating structure from assumedly > structureless input data. > Life is not a creation, but instead is the act of creation. Hmm.... What is an act? What is creation? I take nothing for granted, except numbers and + and *. > > If life is such a creative act rather than a creation, then it seems > to fit what > I have been postulating as the basic inseparable ingredients of > life: intelligence > and free will. Intelligence is what is required to create structure > (an algorithm) > this algorithm must be free within its own domain to create > structure. Consciousness is a necessity > for such intelligence and this would consist essentially of the > reading or perception of > input data to work on. OK. > > The engine of life might then be modelled as > > a) reading input data (consciousness) > > b) computationally (intelligently) creating structure from this data > (this being the act of life), and > > c) outputting structures of some kind. > > In a Maxwell Demon, > > a) The demon reads random (hot or cold) input temperature data of > atoms Ti. > > b) Selects data according to some criterion ( Ti < Tcold goes into > A, the "cold" bin > and Ti > Tcold data goes into goes into bin B). > > c) The output structure consists of data i n A, the cold bin, and B, > the warm bin. > > > So we have (input data ID of some kind) --> (structure creation SC > of some kind) ---> (output structure OS of some kind) > > So the overall engine consists of three to-be-specified parts: > > 1) ID (which could be random or OS or some modification of it) > > 2) Stucture creating SC algorithm of some kind > > 3) Output structure OS of some kind. > > By this means, one could define different levels of structure as > products of different > creation algorithms, the lowest form of life perhaps being the > Maxwell Demon algorithm. > > Higher levels of life would have perhaps cellular structeres, etc. > > > This engine could then be of multiple types of components. > There out to be some correleation perhaps between input and out put. > It might be a convolution integral. > > There might be a parallel or serial of such engines > > The actual creation of life might be the creation of an algorithm > or structure that reproduces > more creation algorithms. > > > Etc. etc. I would insist more on the self-transformation notion to gat a comp autopoesis. Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.