On Thursday, November 15, 2012 9:36:44 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote:
>
>  Hi Craig Weinberg 
>  
> Yes, Berkeley's solopsism is impossible to disprove,
> so your theory that perception causes existence holds.
>  
> But, forgive me, how do you know that there are other people
> to report your findings to ? We could all be chimeras.
>

Logically you could be, but we don't live in a logical universe, we live in 
a universe of sense. Some sense can be explained in terms of other senses, 
but other senses can't. The sense of realism is one example of the latter. 
We don't need to prove that there is a difference between waking and 
dreaming, because proof supervenes on that difference to begin with. 

The miracle of sense is that it is translucent and reflective. You can sort 
of know things that it seems like you shouldn't be able to be sure about. 
But you are sure enough, and that's all that you need to be ultimately. If 
you are chimeras, then there word chimera has no meaning anyhow since it 
means there would be no way to tell the difference. The fact that we can 
conceive of 'illusion' and 'reality' means that some part of us cares to 
discern the difference. Why would that be the case in a solipsistic 
universe, and if it were, what would be the point of caring about it?

Craig 

 
>  
> [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] <javascript:>
> 11/15/2012 
> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
>  
>
> ----- Receiving the following content ----- 
> *From:* Craig Weinberg <javascript:> 
> *Receiver:* everything-list <javascript:> 
> *Time:* 2012-11-12, 07:07:07
> *Subject:* Re: I am a realist rather than a nominalist because universal 
> gravityexists.
>
>  
>
> On Tuesday, November 6, 2012 8:32:27 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: 
>>
>>
>>
>> Physics thus tells us that a falling tree will make 
>> a sound even if nobody is there to witness the event. 
>>
>
> Just the opposite. Physics tells us that sound is an experience for 
> subjects who have some kind of ear. Without that, there is only a recurring 
> change in the position of bodies (vibration), which requires that there be 
> bodies which can detect that this change is occurring. There doesn't need 
> to be a human witness unless by 'make a sound' we mean an experience 
> interpreted with human qualities of sound discernment and sensitivity.
>  
>
>>
>> Because existence then is independent of mind 
>> (the realist position), 
>
>
> But it is not independent of experience.
>  
>
>> This also refutes Berkeley's 
>> position that things exist because we perceive them. 
>>
>
> Yes, Berkeley didn't take it far enough and realize that perception was 
> the sole universal principle, and not just a human privilege.
>  
>
>> Those are the complaints of the far left. 
>>
>  They hate everything that has authority or power.
>>
>
> I think that the far left would argue that they do not hate powerful 
> authorities like Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, the Dalai 
> Lama, etc. You know, leaders who rise to positions of adoration without 
> taking power from others.
>
> Craig
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Everything List" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/qzVxV_EizvMJ.
> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com<javascript:>
> .
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> everything-li...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
> For more options, visit this group at 
> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/LL0wh4qTC2oJ.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.

Reply via email to