On 12 Dec 2012, at 17:00, Jason Resch wrote:

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All,One of the questions in mathematics is where does mathematical truthcome from, if it exists platonically, how does it manifestphysically (e.g. as the utterances of mathematicians).

`I could explain, but it can be long, that it is impossible to explain`

`where the natural numbers come from, or where the Fortran programs`

`come from, of were the GoL comes from.`

`Now if you assume the natural numbers, and the + and x laws, then I`

`can prove the existence of the Fortran programs, and of GoL, etc.`

if you assume GoL, I can prove the existence of the numbers, etc.

`So the numbers, or anything Turing equivalent are mysterious. It is`

`the least that we have to assume to get anything capable of supporting`

`a computer, or a brain.`

`But once we assume the numbers, then we can explain why they will`

`eventually develop a mathematics (and physics) much richer than the`

`numbers (including many infinities).`

`Above arithmetic, the mathematics (and physics) are just number mind`

`tools to simplify their lives when the relation with other (universal)`

`numbers get too much complex, a bit like the complex Riemann Zeta`

`function is a tool for making simpler the relation between the prime`

`numbers and the study of their distribution.`

I had a thought inspired by one of Roger's posts regarding cause andeffect extending outside of spacetime. I thought, there is nothingpreventing the goings on in this universe from having causalimplications outside our universe. Consider that an advancedcivilization might choose to simulate our universe and inspect it.Then when they observe what happens in our universe the observationsgenerate causal effects in their own universe. The same applies toour universe, we might choose to observe another universe throughsimulation, and our discoveries or observations of that otheruniverse change us. Thus, the various universes that can exist outthere are more interconnected than we might suppose. Our universeis an open book to those universes possessing sufficientcomputational power to simulate it. Likewise, how simple universeslike certain small instances of the game of life are open books tous. The possibilities of gliders in the GoL has led to manydiscussions about GoL gliders, their existence in the GoL universehas led to the manifestation of physical changes in our own universe.I think the entrance of mathematical truth to our own universe is nodifferent. Mathematicians have used their minds to simulate objectsand structures that exist in other universes, in a sense theyobserve them, and then those mathematicians report theirobservations and discoveries concerning those objects, just as anadvanced civilization might report discoveries about our universe,or we might report discoveries about the GoL universe. Thus thestructures and objects which exist in other universes have directlychanged the course of the evolution of our own.

`This explanation seems to assume universe(s) and observers, but with`

`the CTM, we know we don't need to assume them, nor can we really use`

`them to relate consciousness and matter. This should follow form the`

`uda reasoning, normally. Apart from this, mathematics looks indeed`

`like exploration of mathematical realities, but the physical reality`

`is not one mathematical structure among others, it is a mathematical`

`structure summing all the other mathematical structure, in some way,`

`and in arithmetic.`

Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.