On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 2:30 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: > > > On 12/19/2012 8:34 AM, Roger Clough wrote: > > Hi meekerdb and Stephen, > > If information is stored in quantum form, > I can't see why the number of particles > in the universe can be a limiting fsactor. > > > Information has to be instantiated in matter (unless you're a Platonist like > Bruno). No particles, no excited field modes -> no information. > > Also there are ways of storing information > holographically, so size gets a bit ambiguous. > > > The holographic principle says that the information that can be instantiated > in spherical must be less than the area of the bounding surface in Planck > units. So there's a definite bound. If we looks at the average information > density in the universe (which is dominated by low energy photons from the > CMB) and ask at what radius does the spherical volume times the density > equal the holographic limit for that volume based on the surface area we > find it is on the order of the Hubble radius, i.e. the radius at which > things are receding at light speed. This suggests the expansion rate of the > universe and and gravity are entropic phenomena. > > Brent
Brent, Perhaps you or somebody can help me out. I always believed that the Hubble radius was much larger than the age of the universe times the speed of light. To my surprise the Wiki-Hubble Volume says that the age is 13,7 Byrs as expected , but that the Hubble radius divided by the speed of light is 13.9 Byrs, which is rather close. Does that mean that in 200 Myrs (minus 380,000 years) the Cosmic Microwave Background will disappear outside the Hubble bubble and that 400 Myrs later the now detected light from the first stars will also disappear, even though the universe right now is many times larger than 13.7 billion light-years? And if information can be instantaneous as has been suggested here, shouldn't we use the present size of the universe holographically. I think that's where the Penrose limit of 10^124 comes from whereas the Lloyd limit of 10^120 is based on the age of the universe. Richard > > > > [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] > 12/19/2012 > "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen > > > ----- Receiving the following content ----- > From: meekerdb > Receiver: everything-list > Time: 2012-12-18, 16:44:29 > Subject: Re: the only truth we can understand is a man-made object > > On 12/18/2012 1:12 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: > > We have many entities that are available to agree that 2+2=4 (for all > sizes of 2 and 4 that we can find), 2^90 entities at least! Every particle > that exist in our universe that can hold a bit of data and all possible > combinations of them that agree on some "laws of physics". > > > I've only been able to communicate with a few of what I call 'human beings'. > All those particle are inferences that I and the other 'human beings' have > put in our model of the world to explain the 'facts' on which we have > intersubjectively agreed. In our model, the particles don't have opinions. > In fact the whole idea of particle is something which has very few > properties and hence is completely understandable (wouldn't be much point in > making a theory out of pieces you don't understand). > > Brent > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/5969 - Release Date: 12/18/12 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
