Hi Craig Weinberg 

Then we have a dilemma. The numbers say that we are all living better,
while you ( and my liberal lady friend) say that things are getting worse. 
I don't know the answer.


[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
12/20/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Craig Weinberg 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-12-19, 22:36:50
Subject: Re: Why economic inequality and environmental degradation are likelyto 
improve




On Wednesday, December 19, 2012 12:47:26 PM UTC-5, rclough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg

http://it.stlawu.edu/~pomo/mike/kuznet.html

" The Kuznet's theory goes like this: when a country begins developing 
economically, 
its income inequality worsens. But after a few decades when the rich begin 
investing 
more in the economy and wealth begins to "trickle down," income equalizes and 
people are 
more wealthy then they would have otherwise been. The multilateral financial 
institutions 
which have adhered to this theory, namely the IMF, enforce structural 
adjustment 
progams (SAP's) on heavily indebted third world countries which drastically 
worsen 
socioeconomic inequalities. 

So I think the gini coefficient is largely a historical number,
where presumably avg pp income increases with time.
So you have to look at avg income as well.

The Kuznet inverted U curve below shows that  g is low for
rural or under- developed  situations such as Iran
and Greenland, where the avg income is low. 
It reaches a peak when under industrializatyion, and
finally, in serice economies. wher income is the highest, 
it automatically decreases again.

http://www.unc.edu/~nielsen/special/s2/s2.htm



Did you notice this chart on that link?

http://www.unc.edu/~nielsen/special/s2/hs12003a.gif

There is no shade of black that is white, sir. I know you mean well, but I have 
lived in the US for 44 years and I can tell you that it has gotten worse every 
decade - in California, in Colorado, and in North Carolina. People who were 
middle class are now economically abandoned while worthless monopolies 
capitalize on enormous economies of scale to own more and more and more. Can't 
you see that? Can't you tell?

Craig
 





Interestingly, environmental degradation may follow a similar Kuznet curve
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQvFv8mIfjPdpJ4ggRnsWsfkUAPs86kW4tcHgQ9IOPueEaxICU6









[Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net]
12/19/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Craig Weinberg 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-12-19, 10:48:02
Subject: Re: Re: On Income Fairness in the USA and the world




On Wednesday, December 19, 2012 10:33:55 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: 
Hi Hal Ruhl  

So whbat ? Those gini coefficnets are in percentages,
so USA has a gini about 27 %, which is outstanding.

If you don't that,  see from the wikimedia
map (below) that  the USA gini coeff. 
is about about average in the world: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Filt/Sandbox





Sorry, you have to go to that page to find what the colors mean.
The pink color indicates that USA is smack dab in the middle
of the gini coefficients. 

No, smack dab in the middle of the 9 colors would be light orange - places like 
Iran and Turkey. Yellow countries like India and Khazakstan are doing better 
than that. We are down below average, in the D- range with China, Mexico, and 
Peru. Can you imagine how many dirt poor peasants there are in China or Mexico 
or Peru and how many abandoned ex-Middle Class suckers it takes to make the US 
that shade of pink?

It's grotesque. Think of how many hundreds of millions of dollars in spare 
change that those at the top have to convince people like you that giving them 
more and more of your money is the only political solution.

It's not helping your case any btw Roger that you keep trying to pull dead 
rabbits out of this hat. Turn it right side up and face the music.

Craig






[Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] 
12/19/2012  
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 

----- Receiving the following content -----  
From: Hal Ruhl  
Receiver: Everything List  
Time: 2012-12-18, 16:15:31 
Subject: Re: On Income Fairness in the USA and the world 


Hi Roger: 

Try this and sort by wealth Gini 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_distribution_of_wealth 

Hal 

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