On 13 Jan 2013, at 02:41, meekerdb wrote:

On 1/12/2013 3:44 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:


On 12 Jan 2013, at 07:00, John Clark wrote:


On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote:

> He [me] would rather avoid those topics altogether and take solace in denying specific instances of inconsistent or silly definitions of God.

All I ask is a definition of God that has 2 attributes:

1) It is not silly or inconsistent.

You ask already a lot.



2) There is no other word except  G-O-D that works as well.

And when 99.9% of the religious use the word "God" they mean a omnipotent omniscient being who created the universe,

I am not sure of that. Even restricting ourself to Abramanic religion. The beliefs are quite variate on this.

Here's the statement of the Southern Baptist Convention, the largest protestant sect in the U.S.

-------------
There is one and only one living and true God.

We agree. By "we" I mean "me" and the classical computationalist Löbian Universal Machine. There is only ONE truth. I take "living" as a metaphor.



He is an intelligent, spiritual, and personal Being, the Creator, Redeemer, Preserver, and Ruler of the universe.

Hmm.... Up to know the (physical) "universe" might be a failed attempt by God to solve a degree 4 Diophantine equation.
Again "ruler" can be a (misleading) occidental metaphor only.





God is infinite in holiness and all other perfections.

Of course this is too much imprecise. How do we measure or scale holiness? What is holiness? What are perfections? This is akin to St Anselme definition of God, the one use by Gödel to "prove" the existence of God, by using the S5 modal logic. But I don't believe in S5.



God is all powerful and all knowing; and His perfect knowledge extends to all things, past, present, and future, including the future decisions of His free creatures.

I don't know.



To Him we owe the highest love, reverence, and obedience.

I doubt this.



The eternal triune God reveals Himself to us as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, with distinct personal attributes, but without division of nature, essence, or being.

This might be a simplification of a doctrine by St Augustin, itself a simplification of Plotinus three primary hypostases: the ONE (sometimes called "father" by Plotinus, and I think this was a way to attract some Christians), the Noùs (the intelligible reality that you can describe with words, but not necessarily prove), the Universal Soul. To make this closer to some more primitive religion, and to comp, I like also, sometimes described this by the Mother, the Creation, and the (lost) Son.




God as Father reigns with providential care over His universe, His creatures, and the flow of the stream of human history according to the purposes of His grace.

Who know?


He is all powerful, all knowing, all loving, and all wise. God is Father in truth to those who become children of God through faith in Jesus Christ. He is fatherly in His attitude toward all men.

With comp, and the "definition" of God I suggest, there is a tradeoff between power and knowledge. The more powerful he can be, the less knowledge he can access, and vice versa. Jesus might be a sort of shaman, but no human can be designate as having some special relationship to God. Either Jesus was metaphorical, or he was a con, all this assuming comp, and accepting the idea that God = (arithmetical) Truth, the 0-person point of view.

The baptists are not so bad (with respect to comp), but probably too much naïve, literal, and they still encourage the belief in authoritative arguments, which separate theology from science, and that is problematic (with or without comp, imo).

Bruno


---------------

Or see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attributes_of_God_in_Christianity

and

http://preceptaustin.org/notes_for_attributes_of_god_%28ii%29.htm

Brent
"Those who object to the punishment of heresy are like dogs
and swine,"
      --- John Calvin




Bruno



and when non-religious people say they believe in God they mean they believe in the word G-O-D and that's it.

  John K Clark




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