Hi Roger,

We can add together our claims to get a better claim as I see a way to bring our ideas together. How about: morals are the rules of the individual generated by interactions with others. I still refuse to accept any coherence to the idea that there is a collective with a mind at the same level as the individual. Look at the often quoted example of a BEC. In such, the aggregate becomes one entity, a new individual and the previous individual (from the point of view of behaviors) vanishes.

On 1/31/2013 8:05 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Stephen P. King
IMHO morals imply that you have somebody looking over your shoulder.
So they are collective.

    ----- Receiving the following content -----
    *From:* Stephen P. King <mailto:stephe...@charter.net>
    *Receiver:* everything-list <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>
    *Time:* 2013-01-30, 13:44:45
    *Subject:* Re: The least and best means of controlling gun violence

    On 1/30/2013 12:41 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:

    On Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:09:49 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote:

        What is the least powerful means of controlling gun violence ?
        By legal means, as if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will
        have guns.

     Just like if you outlaw biological weapons, then only outlaws
    will have biological weapons. That's pretty much the idea of
    making things illegal.

        What is the most powerful means ?
        By restablishing moral values in our homes, in our schools
        and in the media.

    Moral values cannot be re-established by decree, only imitated
    voluntarily by example.

        Morals flow from the individual mind. The collective has no



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