On 19 Feb 2013, at 22:27, meekerdb wrote:
On 2/19/2013 2:27 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 18 Feb 2013, at 17:29, Richard Ruquist wrote:
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Bruno Marchal
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 17 Feb 2013, at 18:09, Jason Resch wrote:
Thanks to everyone who replied to this post. So far Stathis and
Bruno both
answered that both cases are equivalent.
Is there anyone willing to argue against either:
1. you don't experience torture when your memory of it is wiped, or
2. you don't experience torture when your perfect duplicate is
tortured?
Those are interesting questions, but they ask for thought
experiences with
amnesia, which can quickly, too much quickly, makes you
suspicious that
personal identity is an illusion. My experience is that when
people begin to
grasp this, they can feel quite uneasy.
A related question, that I ask to you, Jason. Would you accept to
sleep in
my sleep-laboratory. I pay you 100$ or even more. But I tell you
in advance
that you will live your worst nightmare. I tell you also that I
have the
means to make you, in the morning after, completely forgetting that
nightmare.
Are you OK? Are you OK that your son or daughter makes money in
that way?
Can this be legal?
Is it equivalent with this: I duplicate you and torture the copy
for one
hour, and then I kill that copy (assuming I can)?
Is this not equivalent with a forgotten dream of torture? Are you
OK that
your daughter makes money in that way?
Bruno
There used to be a drug administered for childbirth which would
allow
the mother-to-be- to experience excruciating pain as evidenced by
her
behavior during the birthing process yet afterwards she would have
no
memory of that pain. Doctors found that acceptable and assumed there
was no lasting trauma.
My opinion is that there is lasting trauma that has to be
consciously
re-experienced to be resolved. So one may as well experience
childbirth without drugs to begin with. BTW- off-list topic??
Not really, as here we were touching on the question of personal
identity, in relation with memory.
Now, your question is very difficult, and my thought on it is that
woman should have the choice, and that nobody can coerce on her
decision. Comp + Theaetetus would lead to the idea that nobody can
solve that problem, and that only individual woman can take the
decision. The very basic idea is that no one can think at the
place of other one, especially about possible pain.
And can you now make a decision for you in the future - since those
are in some degree two different people.
Why?
Not with comp where we agree that the one restored in Moscow and the
one restore in Washington are the same person, despite being different
with each other.
A forgotten pain has still been a lived pain, and this has to be
avoided if possible.
Right. Many things happen that we forget - but that doesn't make
them unhappen. In the Restorer story there is the assumption that
everything can be put back as it was; but that is nomologically
impossible.
With comp it is possible in principle, if only through a backup, given
the equivalence explained above.
Bruno
Brent
Bruno
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