On Thu, Feb 21, 2013  Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>unlike the other sciences or even art mathematics does not require
>> experimentation.
> > But they require thinking,


>which you are saying is nothing but the brain.

What to you think with, your elbow?

 > The act of looking is to see out of your eyes.  Are you saying that
> electrical signals look out of your eyes?

I'm saying that eyes produce a sequence of electronic signals that are sent
to the brain which interprets that input as a 3D image; already
experimental procedures have used electronic cameras to replace non
functioning eyes in blind people, and they report seeing a image, a very
poor low resolution image to be sure but better than no image at all, and
as the technology improves the image will improve too. And for a number of
years electronic ears (cochlear implants) have been available, and it is no
longer experimental, it's just mainstream medicine.

> Do you understand what is meant by 'the map is not the territory'?

Do you understand that you can't have a map of a adjective? Do you
understand that despite what your third grade teacher taught you "Craig
Weinberg" is a adjective?

> > There is no 'the thing'. There is only qualia in the universe,

Then it would be impossible to make a computer that did not deal in qualia,
although I must say that if everything in the universe is qualia then the
word "qualia" has zero informational value and you are just causing
needless wear and tear on your keyboard when you type the word.

>  Neurons are physical experiences

No they are not, neurons are just cells, and about 97% of what neurons do
has nothing to do with thinking or consciousness, most of their activities
are just to stay alive and is identical with what a liver or skin or
intestinal cell does.

 > It's not possible for spatial presentation to have any effect at all. It
> doesn't do anything functional.


> > If something works perfectly fine with no consciousness or presentation,

It must be grand being a "hard problem" theorist because it's the easiest
job in the world bar none, no matter how smart something is you just say
"yeah but it's not conscious" and there is no way anybody can prove you

>>  unlike complex numbers symmetrical apple pies may be able to signify a
>> arbitrary magnitude but they can not simultaneously signify a arbitrary
>> unique direction.
 >They can if you cut a wedge out of it.

Yes, but of course for 3D navigation you'd need a way to specify how the
non symmetrical pie is orientated and fortunately there is a way to do
this, complex numbers. In fact they do the job so well that you can get rid
of the pies entirely and just use the complex numbers.

> >> A Video Graphic Array is a Turing Machine,
> No


> a VGA is a physical device.

So is your brain.

> > Behavior is overrated.

Behavior is the only thing that determines success in life, and it doesn't
matter if "success" means making money or making friends or avoiding
predators or catching prey; and besides, imperfect it may be but behavior
is the only tool we have to determine if our fellow human beings are

> A movie can duplicate the behavior of John Wayne.

If a movie tried to pass the Turing Test is would flop big time on the very
first interaction.

> Why didn't I become a living being by myself?

Because you lack the ability.

 >>I repeat, I do not believe that for one single second! Nobody,
>> absolutely positively nobody would find your vague convoluted and
>> contradictory arguments convincing unless they had already decided that
>> they very much wished for it to be true.
> > Why do you think I would I wish for it to be true?

>From reading your posts it is bloody obvious that you desperately want
consciousness to be something that is uniquely biological perhaps even
uniquely human; as for why you wish this I don't know I'm not a
psychologist. However I do know with absolute certainty that you
desperately want consciousness to be something that is uniquely biological
for a reason, or you desperately want consciousness to be something that is
uniquely biological for no reason.

  John K Clark

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