On 2/22/2013 6:08 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:

On Friday, February 22, 2013 7:45:58 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:

    On 2/22/2013 3:06 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:

    On Friday, February 22, 2013 4:54:05 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote:

        On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 8:25 AM, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com> 

                >> What to you think with, your elbow?

             > my point was that you have a double standard about which brain
            activities represent nothing but evolutionary driven illusions

        Illusions? Evolutionary drive is what made you the man you are today. 
        interpreting a 1D signal from the eye as 3D space is as valid a 
        as any other, and apparently Evolution has determined that particular
        interpretation gets the most genes into the next generation. Thus you 
are good
        at 3D visualization because your ancestors were good at it too. You 
come from a
        long line of winners, most animals never manage to reproduce but every 
        one of your ancestors did.

    A successful evolutionary outcome doesn't have anything to do with the 
veracity of
    the content of a signal. If someone has a delusion that their ancestors are 
    turnip people and it causes them to plant turnips and survive a famine, that
    doesn't mean that their belief is not a delusion. There seems to be this 
theme with
    your positions which fanatically exaggerates the importance of winning, and 
    winning justifies whatever distortions of the truth are required

    On the contrary, John is saying that evolution must align perception at 
    roughly with reality because misalignment is likely to go badly - like when 
    turnip people keep planting turnips because their ancestor said so even 
though the
    turnip beetle keeps decimating their crops.

It doesn't matter. As long as the turnip people survive to reproduce while everyone else in their niche die of hunger, then they are the heirs of that niche forever. If the next selection event is a turnip beetle, it will be some members of the turnip clan who liked to supplement their turnips with barley who survive - not someone from outside the clan (because they are all dead). Again it makes no difference at all whether the barley people know about crop rotation or soil aeration, nutrition, biology, etc. All that matters is that they had the barley when the turnips went south. If they have it because they believe that Odin commands it, then that will be the adaptation which is passed on to the next selection event.

Yes, it makes no difference why you believe a useful thing, but if you believe things for reasons unrelated to reality then it is unlikely they will be useful. I is astounding that you would argue against such an obvious proposition. I can only conclude you are either a troll or brain damaged.

The suggestion that "evolution must align perception at least roughly with reality" is interesting because it directly contradicts the model of qualia as a solipsistic simulation.

You just made that up - it doesn't follow from anything, either logical or empirical - it's just blather.

This is supposed to be the reason why we don't perceive 'reality' as it is - probabilistic quantum computations.

Who says computations are reality (besides Bruno)?

The relation between "reality", "computation", and "perception" here are misconceived because only two of the three make sense together any way you slice it. If you have computation and reality, there is no point of perception.

Before you can make that into an interesing argument you would have to show that everything must "have a point", whatever that means...something like aligning with reality?


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