On Saturday, March 9, 2013 8:13:38 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > On 3/9/2013 4:48 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Saturday, March 9, 2013 7:26:25 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> On 3/9/2013 4:06 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, March 9, 2013 6:30:53 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: >>> >>> On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 9:23 AM, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >> They are not powerless to stop them since if someone yells, "Hey, >>> stop!" >>> >> they may stop. This is the case even though the process is still >>> >> deterministic or probabilistic. >>> > >>> > >>> > In a deterministic universe, a person who is determined to steal a car >>> will >>> > steal it regardless of whether someone yells at them. If someone >>> yelling at >>> > the thief creates an opportunity for the them to exercise free will >>> over >>> > their own actions, then it is not a deterministic universe. You can >>> yell at >>> > a stone rolling down a hill as much as you want and there will be no >>> change >>> > in where the stone rolls. >>> >>> In a deterministic universe it is determined whether the thief will >>> stop if someone yells at him. However, neither the person yelling nor >>> the thief knows for sure whether he will stop or not. >> >> >> What difference would it make to them if neither the person yelling nor >> the thief can control whether or not they are yelling or stealing? >> >> >> It will make exactly whatever difference is determined (or random). >> > > You're not getting my point. If you say that the boat doesn't exist, why > would it matter if it has a hole in it or not? > > >> >> I don't know whether or not a puddle in the gutter will dry out or not >> overnight, but why would that generate some sort of interest to me? >> >> >>> Furthermore, it >>> is not possible to know for sure if the thief will stop or not even >>> with a perfect model of his brain, due to the nature of classical >>> chaotic systems. >>> >> >> It doesn't matter because in a deterministic universe it would be >> impossible to care whether the thief would stop or not. >> >> >> Unless it was determined that you would care, in which case it would >> impossible not to care. That's what deterministic means, things are >> *determined*. >> > > Why would there be a such thing as "care" in a deterministic universe? I > don't think it is defensible that it could. If *all things are determined* > then there can be no "care". > > > Only because you are determined to think so (in both senses). >
No, because it doesn't make sense the other way. What could it mean to care in a deterministic world? Craig > > Brent > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.