On 29 Mar 2013, at 16:04, Quentin Anciaux wrote:



2013/3/29 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>

On 29 Mar 2013, at 10:44, Quentin Anciaux wrote:



2013/3/29 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>

On 28 Mar 2013, at 18:59, meekerdb wrote:

On 3/28/2013 7:52 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Intelligence, in my opinion is rather easy too. It is a question of "abstract thermodynamic", intelligence is when you get enough heat while young, something like that. It is close to courage, and it is what make competence possible.

??


Competence is the most difficult, as they are distributed on transfinite lattice of incomparable degrees. Some can ask for necessary long work, and can have negative feedback on intelligence.

That sounds like a quibble. Intelligence is usually just thought of as the the ability to learn competence over a very general domain.

That's why I think that intelligence is simple, almost a mental attitude, more akin to courage and humility, than anything else. Competence asks for gift or work, and can often lead to the feeling that we are more intelligent than others, which is the first basic symptom of stupidity.


That sounds more and more "1984"ish... War is peace.

?



Freedom is slavery.

?



Ignorance is strength

I never said that.

Never read George Orwell 1984 ? I just said that what you wrote sounds like that.


I read it and love it. Orwell wrote in there that "Freedom is the right to say 2+2=4".

A deep assertion which reminded me my father telling me that the humans does not want to hear the truth, most usually.






I say that awareness of our ignorance is strength. It participates to our intelligence.





and now more intelligent is stupid.


That's a contradiction and is not what I said.

Well I quote "to the feeling that we are more intelligent than others, which is the first basic symptom of stupidity.", that means if someone feels he is more intelligent than other he is in fact stupid, if that's not novlang nothing is...

No it means that to feel oneself intelligent, and worst, to assert it, is not intelligent.

This does not make intelligence contradictory. It means that no machine can really judge its own, or other intelligence. We can know that we are conscious, and we can know and communicate that we are competent, but we cannot know that we are intelligent.

Bruno





Quentin

I said that competence, or expertise, can have, and often have, a negative feedback on intelligence. Someone quoted Feynman saying that "Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." That's deeply Löbian, if I can say.

I distinguish "intelligence" from competence. Competence can be evaluated, measured, relatively compared, trained, ... but intelligence is like free will and consciousness: it can be hoped for oneself and others, but it is not measurable, and it corresponds to a state of mind. It is more like an attitude, close to modesty but also courage, as it is what makes it possible for persons to recognize their own mistake. I think that "intelligence" is a protagorean virtue: like consistency it obeys [] x -> ~x.

Bruno





Quentin

Bruno



http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/




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