On Friday, March 29, 2013 10:47:09 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
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> On 29 Mar 2013, at 10:44, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
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> 2013/3/29 Bruno Marchal <mar...@ulb.ac.be <javascript:>>
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>> On 28 Mar 2013, at 18:59, meekerdb wrote:
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>>  On 3/28/2013 7:52 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
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>>>> Intelligence, in my opinion is rather easy too. It is a question of 
>>>> "abstract thermodynamic", intelligence is when you get enough heat while 
>>>> young, something like that. It is close to courage, and it is what make 
>>>> competence possible.
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>>> ??
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>>>> Competence is the most difficult, as they are distributed on 
>>>> transfinite  lattice of incomparable degrees. Some can ask for necessary 
>>>> long work, and can have negative feedback on intelligence.
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>>> That sounds like a quibble.  Intelligence is usually just thought of as 
>>> the the ability to learn competence over a very general domain.
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>> That's why I think that intelligence is simple, almost a mental attitude, 
>> more akin to courage and humility, than anything else.
>> Competence asks for gift or work, and can often lead to the feeling that 
>> we are more intelligent than others, which is the first basic symptom of 
>> stupidity.
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> That sounds more and more "1984"ish... War is peace. 
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> ?
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> Freedom is slavery.
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> Ignorance is strength 
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> I never said that.
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> I say that awareness of our ignorance is strength. It participates to our 
> intelligence.
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That is true only if our intelligence is grounded in something which 
transcends its own ignorance...otherwise awareness of our own ignorance is 
just another layer of ignorance. This carries over to simulation - the 
ability to discern one thing as more real than another is meaningless 
unless our sense of realism is grounded in something beyond simulation. 
Patterns don't care about patterns, or to quote Deleuze - “Representation 
fails to capture the affirmed world of difference. Representation has only 
a single center, a unique and receding perspective, and in the consequence 
a false depth. It mediates everything, but mobilizes and moves nothing."

Craig
 

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> and now more intelligent is stupid.
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> That's a contradiction and is not what I said. I said that competence, or 
> expertise, can have, and often have, a negative feedback on intelligence. 
> Someone quoted Feynman saying that "*Science* is the belief in the 
> ignorance of *experts*." That's deeply Löbian, if I can say.
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> I distinguish "intelligence" from competence. Competence can be evaluated, 
> measured, relatively compared, trained, ... but intelligence is like free 
> will and consciousness:  it can be hoped for oneself and others, but it is 
> not measurable, and it corresponds to a state of mind. It is more like an 
> attitude, close to modesty but also courage, as it is what makes it 
> possible for persons to recognize their own mistake. I think that 
> "intelligence" is a protagorean virtue: like consistency it obeys [] x -> 
> ~x.
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> Bruno
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> Quentin
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>> Bruno
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>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~**marchal/ <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/>
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