On 29 Mar 2013, at 16:02, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Friday, March 29, 2013 10:47:09 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 29 Mar 2013, at 10:44, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
2013/3/29 Bruno Marchal <mar...@ulb.ac.be>
On 28 Mar 2013, at 18:59, meekerdb wrote:
On 3/28/2013 7:52 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Intelligence, in my opinion is rather easy too. It is a question of
"abstract thermodynamic", intelligence is when you get enough heat
while young, something like that. It is close to courage, and it is
what make competence possible.
??
Competence is the most difficult, as they are distributed on
transfinite lattice of incomparable degrees. Some can ask for
necessary long work, and can have negative feedback on intelligence.
That sounds like a quibble. Intelligence is usually just thought
of as the the ability to learn competence over a very general domain.
That's why I think that intelligence is simple, almost a mental
attitude, more akin to courage and humility, than anything else.
Competence asks for gift or work, and can often lead to the feeling
that we are more intelligent than others, which is the first basic
symptom of stupidity.
That sounds more and more "1984"ish... War is peace.
?
Freedom is slavery.
?
Ignorance is strength
I never said that.
I say that awareness of our ignorance is strength. It participates
to our intelligence.
That is true only if our intelligence is grounded in something which
transcends its own ignorance...
That's what the Löbian machines do, even just by looking inward.
That's computer science.
otherwise awareness of our own ignorance is just another layer of
ignorance. This carries over to simulation - the ability to discern
one thing as more real than another is meaningless unless our sense
of realism is grounded in something beyond simulation.
Right. The physical reality, with comp, is not simulable. Nor
consciousness.
But machines can makes possible for some person to manifest themselves
with some other person, with some non negligible probability.
Patterns don't care about patterns, or to quote Deleuze -
“Representation fails to capture the affirmed world of difference.
Representation has only a single center, a unique and receding
perspective, and in the consequence a false depth. It mediates
everything, but mobilizes and moves nothing."
That makes sense in comp when describing the machine first person
perspective.
In some sense we might argue that the first person associated to a
machine, is not really a machine, after all, nor anything describable
in any 3p way.
And that is what makes the first person immune for diagonalization,
making it possible that [] x -> x. "[]" is not a number. Provably so
with []p = Bp & p.
Comp is not so much "I am a machine" that "I (whatever I am) can
survive locally with "normal probability" a digital brain/body
transplant". What is saved in the process is an immaterial connection
between some number, some environments or consistent computational-
continuations, and an infinity of universal numbers".
We are not machines, Craig, we borrow machines (arithmetical
relations). We are living on the boundaries between the computable and
the non computable.
Bruno
Craig
and now more intelligent is stupid.
That's a contradiction and is not what I said. I said that
competence, or expertise, can have, and often have, a negative
feedback on intelligence. Someone quoted Feynman saying that
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." That's deeply
Löbian, if I can say.
I distinguish "intelligence" from competence. Competence can be
evaluated, measured, relatively compared, trained, ... but
intelligence is like free will and consciousness: it can be hoped
for oneself and others, but it is not measurable, and it corresponds
to a state of mind. It is more like an attitude, close to modesty
but also courage, as it is what makes it possible for persons to
recognize their own mistake. I think that "intelligence" is a
protagorean virtue: like consistency it obeys [] x -> ~x.
Bruno
Quentin
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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