Russell:
I greet a hint towards humor from you. My remark is not in the 'joking'
department about

1. 'nations die...' - why shouldn't they? what good does to humankind the
'nationality craze' with all the wars, atrocities, brutality, greed/envy
and cruel oppression by 'national pride' or hate? A 'national language' is
a barrier to free communication among groups of people, the national music
is an asset. Is it worth the negatives?
So: if we can get rid of 'religious' (fundamentalist) errors, i.e. at least
one level worse than just the 'national', humankind would gain by also
losing the nationality based segregation.
2. Agnostic ("A) is a negative, unlike the 'atheistic' ( - "a" : also a
negative). While "A" does naturally not identify the topical (or any other)
content of whatever an "A" does not know -
<I call that the "Infinite Complexity" - the "World Totality" (including
but not restricted to the content, not even the qualifications in our
'world-model', the so far achieved inventory of our knowables) with the
"rest of the world" impenetrable for our inquiry and understanding so far>

"a" negates the existence of a god (God?) designed over the millennia
equipped with most human weaknesses  we may have - among others vanity to
be continually praised, servitude,subordination and total submissiveness
'to the master', requiring complete faith, presents and offerings, an
omniscience that, however requires the communication of the 'mortals',
judgmental vengeance and complete privacy from any inquiry. In return there
is a promise in eternity (not a time span) of poorly identified pleasures.
An 'atheist' is close to an extremist 'skeptic' usually not replacing the
denied Supreme Being by a more rational Thought.
Congrats to your son for his clear mind.
I usually refrain from arguing with the 'faithful' since one asked me (on
another list): who gave you the audacity to believe to be superior to our
ways? I am no missionary, don't want to convert, or transform (even hurt?)
anybody.

Regards

John Mikes




On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 8:08 PM, Russell Standish <li...@hpcoders.com.au>wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 01:01:09PM -0400, John Clark wrote:
> > Even if it was true that nations die when they lose their religion that
> > wouldn't mean that religion tells the truth, in fact we know for a fact
> > that most of them are wrong because there are lots of religions and most
> of
> > them contradict each other. But is it even true that religion promotes
> > stability?
> >
> > Right now Europe is the second most peaceful continent on Earth after
> > Antarctica,
>
> More peaceful than Australia, even? London riots, Paris riots,
> bombings in Northern Ireland. Sure we have our nutters too, bid you a
> Port Arthur versus the Utoya (Olso), Dunblane or Omagh massacres, and
> we have recently has a spate of shootings out in the Moslem heartland
> in Western Sydney, but compared with the years of open warfare in the
> former Yugoslavia, this is tame stuff indeed.
>
> In the more than 200 years of western civilisation in Australia (or
> occupation as the original inhabitants call it), we've never had war,
> just the odd battle here an there (Eureka stockade, bombing of Darwin
> by the Japanese, or a couple of missiles fired across Sydney in that
> same skirmish).
>
> > and Europe is the second most atheistic continent on Earth
>
> Some bits are more religious than others - its very uneven. I suspect
> one reason that there are so many declared atheists in Scandinavia is
> the presence of the church tax. Even though nominally, only about 30%
> of Australia put down atheist or agnostic on their census forms, the
> reality is that there are only two great religions in Australia, AFL and
> NRL (Aussie Rules and Rugby League), with a third in ascendancy
> (Soccer).
>
> My son (who is devout atheist) just mentioned yesterday that he is
> enjoying the company of one of his friends who is quite a strong
> Christian, as he can have some meaningful theological debates with
> him. Most of his school friends (he goes to a Christian school), are
> agnostic or atheist.
>
> > after Antarctica, most of the few hundred full time residences of that
> > continent are scientists and most scientists are atheists or agnostics.
> And
> > Europe would be even more peaceful that it is without the Islamic
> influence
> > that has increased over the last few decades.
> >
>
> Anyway, aside from Australia, Europe is doing fairly well on the peace
> front, as compared with the other continents :).
>
> Cheers
>
> --
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Prof Russell Standish                  Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
> Principal, High Performance Coders
> Visiting Professor of Mathematics      hpco...@hpcoders.com.au
> University of New South Wales          http://www.hpcoders.com.au
>
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