Roget told about the nation. Not about the nationalism.  They have little
to do in common. In fact when  natíons lose their religión, nationalism is
the sustitutive religión that takes over, most of the time, before the
nation is lost.

One thing is a nation and another is nationalism. A nation  (whatever you
may call it) is a natural institution where people live. Nationalism is a
ideology that  posit that the own nation is above everithing. Individuals
included. As such is a totalitary ideology.

Nationalism is neither better nor worse in principle that any other
ideology that make people to act in common for a common goal, that by
definition ever is mostly and foremost for the benefit of the group.

But nationalism is not or has not to be part of a nation.  nations are
natural and exist because people that live geographically nearby share the
same history the same customs and language and therefore it is easier to
communicate and collaborate with someone nearby than with someone else .
.And better collaboration means división of work, wealth, freedom ad
security. A nation is like a familly, open and collaborative with other
families. Nationalism is like  the Gang of the Corleone



2013/4/24 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>

>
> On 23 Apr 2013, at 23:21, John Mikes wrote:
>
> And what good does it do to   H A V E  nations? Starting wars? Looking
> down on every other nation? Exploiting strangers/foreigners?
> Nationalism is a pest in the human world.
> You are right saying that it is - sort of - a religious aberration,
> closely connected with religion itself. So the proposition may be true.
> Could anyone LIST the benefits of 'national' existence/feeling?
>
>
>
> You just gave the answer above. The advantage of nationalism, and other
> form of clubism are socially huge (albeit quite local and short termed) :
> you can rape, torture, exploits the "others".
>  In case of economical problems you can easily complain only on "others",
> and eventually start wars.
> It is a common reaction of many mammals when they are put in precarious
> condition, but some men can resist.
>
> Nationalism is a form of collective solipsism, or collective autism. It is
> a form of barbary. Religion is supposed to help here, but that's also why
> religion can be misused and exploited by the "nationalist" of the
> spiritual.
> I prefer to call them pseudo-religion, and keep the meliorative sense for
> the general original generous idea.
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
> (Forget about the secondaries: mother tongue, folk-music, lit, etc.)
> JM
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> This is like economic laws. If we talk about short and long term effects
>> mixed, there is nothing that can be understood.
>>
>>   In the short time, a crisis trigger humans to enhance social capital by
>> adhering to the common values (which are ever religious of some kind) This
>> enhances mutual help and a decrease of conflcts due to discrepancy
>> of individualistic goals. It is a sort of emergency mode.
>>
>> In the long term, by the same reasons, a group of people that loose its
>> common religious values loose the informal mechanisms of coordination and
>> is going to death, since these values (that  are ultimately religious) are
>> much more important and are the foundation of the formal ones.
>>
>>
>> 2013/4/22 Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
>>
>>> On the other hand, belief in god seems to correlate with economic
>>> collapse:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_belief_in_god.svg
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 8:50 PM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Former KGB Agent explains: The destruction of America from within
>>> >
>>> > Nations die when they lose their religion.
>>> >
>>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWlyt2ldKw
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013
>>> > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough
>>> >
>>> > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013
>>> > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough
>>> >
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