It's a sleight of hand because it assumes a single self on a single level which does the wanting and the willing and the discerning between the two.
On Tuesday, September 3, 2013 6:54:46 AM UTC-4, telmo_menezes wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Dennis Ochei > <[email protected]<javascript:>> > wrote: > > this is in line with schopenhauer's views. he was essentially a > buddhist. > > you can want not to want, in which case you cannot will yourself to want > to > > want. you can have and act upon the desire to change your desires, but > that > > doesn't constitute "willing" what you want. instead, this constitutes > just > > another form of acting in accordance to one's wants > > Ok. I was thinking about Schopenhauer's sentence on my bike ride to > work and I cannot decide if it's a deep insight or a language trick. > My problem is with the meaning of "want" and the possibility that by > applying the verb to itself we might just be breaking language > somehow. Sorry for the rambling. > > > On Tuesday, September 3, 2013, Telmo Menezes wrote: > >> > >> On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 6:41 AM, meekerdb > >> <[email protected]<javascript:>> > wrote: > >> > On 9/2/2013 8:50 PM, Dennis Ochei wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > No matter how complex a system is, it can never be complex enough to > >> > contain > >> > itself, and is therefore unable to perceive itself directly as a > >> > deterministic process. Only in the special cases, where the major > causes > >> > of > >> > its action are made apparent, such as when someone holds a gun to its > >> > head, > >> > will it realize that it is acting in compulsion and not freedom. In > >> > other > >> > cases, when the desire to act comes about in a subtle fashion, the > >> > system > >> > might say to itself, I did x because I wanted to do x, and I could > have > >> > wanted to do y. The system may be satisfied with such an explanation, > >> > without probing into a complete physical description of what > constitutes > >> > wanting. Since the causal explanation is not easily available or > >> > comprehensible (it arose out of the particular and peculiar > interaction > >> > of > >> > many subunits of the system in question), the system settles with the > >> > explanation that it acted freely and could have done otherwise. This > is > >> > how > >> > an eight cylinder engine mistakes itself for something which is the > >> > specific > >> > opposite of engines. > >> > > >> > > >> > Good explanation. Craig has failed to absorb the dictum of > >> > Schopenhauer: > >> > "Der Mensh Kann wohl tun, was er will, aber er kann nicht wollen, was > er > >> > will." > >> > >> Buddhists might disagree with Schopenhauer. At least in the sense that > >> they believe it possible to suppress desire. It is perhaps interesting > >> that the way they claim this to be possible is to observe the wanter. > >> > >> Telmo. > >> > >> > Brent > >> > > >> > -- > >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> > Groups > >> > "Everything List" group. > >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send > >> > an > >> > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > >> > To post to this group, send email to > >> > [email protected]<javascript:>. > > >> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > >> Google Groups "Everything List" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > >> > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/jDy5twbibkQ/unsubscribe. > > >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > >> [email protected] <javascript:>. > >> > >> To post to this group, send email to > >> [email protected]<javascript:>. > > >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > "Everything List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an > > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > > To post to this group, send email to > > [email protected]<javascript:>. > > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
