It's a sleight of hand because it assumes a single self on a single level 
which does the wanting and the willing and the discerning between the two.

On Tuesday, September 3, 2013 6:54:46 AM UTC-4, telmo_menezes wrote:
>
> On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Dennis Ochei 
> <do.inf...@gmail.com<javascript:>> 
> wrote: 
> > this is in line with schopenhauer's views. he was essentially a 
> buddhist. 
> > you can want not to want, in which case you cannot will yourself to want 
> to 
> > want. you can have and act upon the desire to change your desires, but 
> that 
> > doesn't constitute "willing" what you want. instead, this constitutes 
> just 
> > another form of acting in accordance to one's wants 
>
> Ok. I was thinking about Schopenhauer's sentence on my bike ride to 
> work and I cannot decide if it's a deep insight or a language trick. 
> My problem is with the meaning of "want" and the possibility that by 
> applying the verb to itself we might just be breaking language 
> somehow. Sorry for the rambling. 
>
> > On Tuesday, September 3, 2013, Telmo Menezes wrote: 
> >> 
> >> On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 6:41 AM, meekerdb 
> >> <meek...@verizon.net<javascript:>> 
> wrote: 
> >> > On 9/2/2013 8:50 PM, Dennis Ochei wrote: 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > No matter how complex a system is, it can never be complex enough to 
> >> > contain 
> >> > itself, and is therefore unable to perceive itself directly as a 
> >> > deterministic process. Only in the special cases, where the major 
> causes 
> >> > of 
> >> > its action are made apparent, such as when someone holds a gun to its 
> >> > head, 
> >> > will it realize that it is acting in compulsion and not freedom. In 
> >> > other 
> >> > cases, when the desire to act comes about in a subtle fashion, the 
> >> > system 
> >> > might say to itself, I did x because I wanted to do x, and I could 
> have 
> >> > wanted to do y. The system may be satisfied with such an explanation, 
> >> > without probing into a complete physical description of what 
> constitutes 
> >> > wanting. Since the causal explanation is not easily available or 
> >> > comprehensible (it arose out of the particular and peculiar 
> interaction 
> >> > of 
> >> > many subunits of the system in question), the system settles with the 
> >> > explanation that it acted freely and could have done otherwise. This 
> is 
> >> > how 
> >> > an eight cylinder engine mistakes itself for something which is the 
> >> > specific 
> >> > opposite of engines. 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > Good explanation.  Craig has failed to absorb the dictum of 
> >> > Schopenhauer: 
> >> > "Der Mensh Kann wohl tun, was er will, aber er kann nicht wollen, was 
> er 
> >> > will." 
> >> 
> >> Buddhists might disagree with Schopenhauer. At least in the sense that 
> >> they believe it possible to suppress desire. It is perhaps interesting 
> >> that the way they claim this to be possible is to observe the wanter. 
> >> 
> >> Telmo. 
> >> 
> >> > Brent 
> >> > 
> >> > -- 
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