On 26 September 2013 10:56, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 9/25/2013 2:57 PM, LizR wrote:
> On 26 September 2013 08:23, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> There seems to be a lot self-congratulatory bashing of reductive
>> materialism on this list without noticing that it has provided all the
>> knowledge of advanced science, while metaphysical Platonism has provided
>> I don't know about any self-congratulation, but I do know that
> "reductive materialism" hasn't provided all this knowledge of advanced
> science. What has done so is *reductionism. Materialism *is a theory
> about what the fundamental nature of the universe is. *Reductionism *is a
> theory about how the fundamental components, whatever they may be, relate
> to each other. It's only reductionism that has been wildly successful.
> Materialism remains a metaphysical speculation, often riding on the
> coat-tails of reductionism, but in fact it been looking less and less
> likely since early in the 20th century. This happens (mainly) when you look
> closely at quantum theory (or even, in my case, not so closely). When you
> see supposedly material objects behaving like little pieces of information,
> the whole edifice of "matter" starts to look a bit shaky (for example all
> electrons are identical except for a few properties - position, momentum,
> spin axis, anything else?) Ditto for space and time, where we find a fixed
> information contents in black holes, indeed they often look like large
> fundamental "particles" - and the Beckenstein bound, the Holographic
> principle, and so on.
> That's why I said the 'materialism' of 'reductive materialism' doesn't
> really mean much except that it's not 'idealism'.
> Oh. OK :)
However there are definitely *some *people out there who conflate the two,
and talk as though we've "proved" (with the usual caveats) materialism via
our technological successes. I would think Bill Taylor (on the FOAR list)
is one of them, for example. (As far as I can tell, a lot of the people who
attack comp - when not merely arguing from incredulity - seem to do so from
a basis that "obviously" materialism is correct, hence there "aren't enough
computational resources for the UD to ever exist" - or similar arguments).
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