On 4 October 2013 11:56, chris peck <chris_peck...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>  Hi Liz / pgc
>
> If I have been abusive to you or Bruno then I apologize without
> hesitation. If you would show where I have been abusive though I would
> appreciate that, because at the moment I regard the suggestion as low and
> mean spirited.
>
> I have made my points and been misrepresented, misunderstood and disagreed
> with. I have clarified as far as I could. No doubt I have misrepresented
> and misunderstood people in return. In what way is that out of the ordinary
> in debate? In what way is that a disservice to anyone? The points under
> debate may seem obvious to you, well I apologise for my stupidity but they
> are not obvious to me. I find it stunning that people find anything in the
> realm of theoretical physics remotely obvious.
>
> Bruno should be happy that people are still reading his papers. What more
> respect can anyone give him?
>
> I do not follow his argument. I do not follow his or your attempts to
> clarify them. I see flaws in what you say. Does that really insult you?
>

Not at all, but whoever it was who said something like "step 3 sucks"
*was*being rude. However I apologise if I went overboard - when I said
I
intended to cut out & keep PGC's post I didn't mean specifically for you
(or specifically for anyone) - it was just the sort of thing that seems to
need to be said occasionally on most forums, so having a well-written
version to hand struck me as a good idea. It might come in handy on FOAR
next time a certain person starts being rude, for example (and this is
someone who really *can* be very rude, even though it's a philosophical /
scientific discussion forum!)

Having cleared the air, could you point out those flaws you mentioned? I
don't know if it helps, but I recently tried to clarify matters by pointing
out that if we assume comp, then it is theoretically possible to create an
AI, and that Bruno's thought experiments could be carried out on an AI
without any of the objections that people automatically apply to human
beings, which might make it easier to think about. Also, the physical
mechanisms involved would definitely *not* require that we worry about the
no-cloning theorem (or whatever), because an AI would "just" be a huge
computer programme, no doubt far more bytes than you could shake a current
technology disc drive at, but subject to the same principles.

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