On 29 Oct 2013, at 16:17, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 10:56:44 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 29 Oct 2013, at 14:23, Craig Weinberg wrote:
>
>
> On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 3:05:52 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
> On 28 Oct 2013, at 19:47, Craig Weinberg wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, October 28, 2013 1:38:58 PM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>
>> On 28 Oct 2013, at 15:12, John Mikes wrote:
>>
>>> What do you call "ANY PHYSICS"? is there a "God given" marvel
>>> (like any other religious miracle to believe in) callable
"PHYSICS"?
>>
>> I think Stathis was referring to any third person describable
>> lawful laws, not relying to actual infinities or magic.
>>
>> Craig want to add some primary sense, and make that sense
>> contradict such deterministic law.
>>
>> That would be silly. Nothing that I have ever proposed contradicts
>> a single scientific observation, by definition. I am not adding
>> anything, I am absorbing all disembodied pseudo-substances into
>> sense: "Laws", "Forces", "Fields", "Wavefunctions",
>> "Probability"...all of that invisible voodoo is gone. It's all
>> primordial pansensitivity experiencing its own alienation and re-
>> constellation.
>
> Looks like a sense-of-the-gap to me.
>
> Not at all. What we have now is a force-of-the-gap, field-of-the-
> gap, etc.
No. This has been solved. Indeed, so precisely that it is only a
question of solving diophantine equation to compare the physics of
machine and the physics we infer from observation. Primary matter is a
matter-of-the-gap, OK. But not the matter as described by the
introspective machine.
Not the matter (because that actually is concretely sensed),
You might be dreaming.
but forces, fields, and laws because they are magical ideas that
appear out of nowhere and do things without any tangible presence.
It's just haunted space. That the haunting of the space can be
precisely mapped and deconstructed mathematically does not give it
the power to change matter. What has been overlooked is the
possibility that matter is an appearance within experience, of
experience which has alienated itself - followed different histories
in parallel or phase-shift.
> I am merging all of the empty bubbles and finding that none could be
> anything more or less than sense.
This cannot satisfy me, as I am looking to some understanding of what
is sense, where does it come from, why does it provide non justifiable
feature like consciousness, etc.
There is no understanding needed to what sense is - it is the most
self-evident phenomena possible as it is self-evidence period, full
stop.
Yes, you are right. But it is not evident in any communicable way, if
only because it escapes definition.
So we can't use it to do a theory of 1p. It is an important data, and
its immediacy and obviousness is certainly a clue.
Then, if you do the math, you can intellectually understand why
machines looking inward describes something which looks very much like
that.
All that is, is because it has been made evident within some sensory
context.
You bet. It is OK.
There is nothing there to be evident except for this relativity of
presence shared with the contents and contexts of eternity.
Justification is nothing but a sense of comparison among subordinate
sense experience. You are looking for something that you have
already found but won't accept it.
I found it in my head, and I show that all universal machine "looking
in their head" can find something quite similar.
You are just insulting the machine, by what looks like prejudice, as
you admit not trying to study them.
I am showing you *all of this* is sense, and you are responding that
you are looking for something *else*.
Not really. I want to understand the origin of sense.
If you accept the premise however (yes, doctor of primordial
identity pansensitivity) then you must accept that it is
ontologically impossible that there could be anything *else*, by
definition.
I want my proof to be mechanically checkable. I play the game of
science, you don't.
I have no problem with that, except when you draw negative conclusion.
Humans are used to make negative prose on possible others. To make
prose and get negative proposition is, with all my naive frankness,
bad philosophy.
Jewish, Black, Indians, Women, Gay, Marijuana smokers, are often
victims of that type of philosophy.
Unlike Comp, it does not assert the supremacy of arithmetic truth,
but then add in dreaming numbers, resurrection by mechanical
incantation, duplicated persons, machines emulating other machines
which think they aren't machines (even though Comp prohibits any
possibility of what else there would be besides machines.).
Not at all. Arithmetical Truth is full of gods, and daemons, which are
non-machines. Comp is a vaccine against the reductionism of the
finite, and the infinite. To understand comp is to understand the
abyssalness of the mindscape. Comp prohibits nothing, not even 0=1,
although we better should hope it is not the case.
Comp may mistake self referential logic for a self,
Comp does not mistake the self-referential logic for the self. There
is no reason why comp would do such a big mistake.
but I don't. I have no problem a sentence that we read as "this
sentence is lying" as a trivial syntactic contradiction rather than
a profound puzzle that reveals the ontology of consciousness.
That's Tarski. You need both Gödel and Tarski to get the Bp & p versus
Bp nuances.
To start from sense is like to start from God. This answers nothing
(even if there is a God).
It is to start before God, and before arithmetic, truth, and even
before 'starting'. Your are still vastly underestimating the hubris
that I intend. Sense = the Absolute, means that there has never been
anything else, and there can never be anything else.
It looks like the arithmetical truth.
What makes you so sure that it is not arithmetical truth?
On the contrary, comp explains 100% of matter, and 99,9% of sense, but
explain 100% of why it remains 0.01% of a necessary non comprehensible
aspect of the inside first person view.
The entire universe fits in the 0,1% of sense that comp fails to
find. Everything else is a reflection of that sense. Comp is inside
out.
Meaning it is the same thing. Except with comp the sun in law enjoy
the steak, where with your sense "theory" he does not, sadly.
Anyway, the solution is testable, so you should be happy that we might
refute comp.
Comp may be testable (using consciousness) but consciousness is not
testable using comp.
Consciousness is not testable, using what you want.
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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