I would like to see us switch away from fossil fuels completely, of course, but the road may be long and hard. I guess if there is an alternative to the ICE it will come on line as people replace their vehicles, and of course as you say power plants are a major part of this - being localised they can be replaced more easily than the vehicle infrastructure, but at quite high initial cost.
About generating more petrol from the air than we burn - we'd have to generate a lot before we got ahead of the curve on this, of course! Probably far easier to do something else... Apparently diamonds aren't forever, they burn at some relatively low temperature - at last I've been told Fleming got that wrong in the helicopter crash scene. On 15 November 2013 16:43, Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > *From:* everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto: > everything-list@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *LizR > *Sent:* Thursday, November 14, 2013 7:20 PM > > *To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: Global warming silliness > > > > Hi Chris > > > > > > Hi Liz > > > > I won't interleave my replies as I'm finding it quite confusing to follow > who is saying what in reply to what, so apologies in advance if I miss > anything. > > > > >> The suggestion about synthesising petrol from the atmosphere is of > course very hypothetical at the moment. Supposing it could be done, I do of > course realise that this would be recycling. The reasons to do it (in the > short term, and assuming it's possible) would be to avoid having to > reconfigure the existing infrastructure that has been built up over decades > to supply petrol to cars, boats, planes, power plants, etc. With almost any > alternative fuel supply this would need a massive (and non carbon neutral) > overhaul to much of the world. > > > > True for vehicles – large thermal plants are a different matter. The > existing deployed fleet of vehicles might have problems burning the > particular hydrocarbon – for example alcohol as a fuel requires engines > that can handle high ethanol content. My point: The hypothetical kinds of > liquid hydrocarbons that could be synthesized might be impossible to burn > in ICE engines designed for combusting gasoline (or diesel) I am arguing > that the current fleet of vehicles is probably going to be obsoleted – even > by a switch to a different liquid fuel (unless it is compatible with > existing engines). > > Why not make the switch to all electric for ground vehicles – Ellon Musk > apparently wants to make an electric airplane so maybe in the air as well. > Of course current lithium ion battery technology does not have the > volumetric or gravimetric density required, but battery technology is > moving fast and lithium (and also zinc air) battery technologies are being > developed that promise much higher energy densities (maybe Ellon Musk knows > something). > > > > >>Why not use the energy more directly? - only because of the storage > problem. One of petrol's big plus points is its high energy density (and > actual density). It's a lot easier to cart around a tank of petrol than a > tank of hydrogen or methane or some other gas, for example, or a battery > full of electricity. > > > > I hear what you are saying and have said the exact same thing, when I have > mentioned energy density of liquid fuels as being a reason one could make > the argument for investing greater amounts of energy than could ever be > extracted from burning them. It is because they are a high quality energy > carrier – in terms of being able to stuff a lot of it – i.e. potential > energy -- in a tank. > > > > >>There are many schemes afoot which could in theory revolutionise > transport - the latest I saw was a New Zealand based idea to use induction > from buried wires to charge electric cars as they move. This is fine, > except that it doesn't work for planes or boats or for cars that aren't on > a road equipped with the wires! And even getting it up and running for > motorways would require digging up thousands of miles of road and filling > it in again, not to mention equipping millions of cars with the necessary > whatever. > > > > Interesting. Zinc or Lithium air batteries though would have the energy > density to work for long distance air travel. Electric powered turbofan > jets. > > > > >> One has the same supply problem with any power source - nuclear, > solar, etc. You have to get the energy into cars, planes, trains etc. A > good solution, in my opinion, would be to use the power plus the carbon in > the air to create a fuel that cars, planes etc can run on. And if you can > do it - very hypothetical at present - then maybe eventually you will even > be able to get more carbon out of the air than is being emitted. > > > > How? As soon as you burn it you put it back into the atmosphere. > > > > >>On the subject of sequestration, plants are top of my list, but > assuming that isn't possible, or not possible enough, is there no way to > split the carbon atoms off from the oxygen (assuming lots of available > energy, as usual!) and to turn it into - oh, I don't know. Diamonds, > perhaps! > > > > Now diamonds are forever LOL > > Chris > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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