On 04 Dec 2013, at 16:24, Telmo Menezes wrote:

Hi Alberto,

I agree with you that religion cannot be avoided in this sense.

Here's a funny example:
The Leipzig secular solstice celebration:
http://lesswrong.com/meetups/u6

Here's a video of some guy who's trying to become a priest for atheists:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vIFloLATxo
(I still have some hope that the guy is a comedian, in which case he's a genius)

One of the most perverse "tricks" that the system played on us, in my opinion, was in convincing people to accept that the state should raise the kids. Sure, people spend a couple of hours with them between days spent working mostly unnecessary jobs, but the bulk of modern education is provided by institutionalised school and TV. I agree with the importance of teaching kids math, reading comprehension, etc, but school is just terrible. It also teaches us to tolerate absurd levels of boredom, to replace thinking with accepting authority and it creates an artificial reward system, where one can get addicted to a feeling of accomplishment without accomplishing anything. Of course, all these things make us more compliant in later on accepting lives without meaning.

Democracy is almost funny. People believe in this myth that it enforces the "will of the people", but if you ask anyone individually you will find that you cannot easily find a person whose opinion ever influenced anything whatsoever. It's even hard to have an opinion. The better part of their days people are slaves, and when tired they are spoon fed badly disguised world views sprinkled over mindless entertainment.

Everyone should have at least one psychedelic experience. This would change the world faster and better than any ideology.


All religions have their psychedelic substances. Christianism is mainly wine (Christ blood!), although some pretended that Jesus took magic shrooms. Cannabis would already change a lot, and salvia, often called a medication to cure atheism (!) could bring much more change. Quite possibly.

Bruno






Telmo.

On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 1:13 PM, Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com> wrote:

Two more remarks:

I´m astonished contemplating how people can contemplate with horror the belief in a god that they thing that it does not exist and accept the belief in worldly lies and praise completely invented myths about their favorite heroes Even if they know that are false. That Kim Jon Il wrote a mean of tree books a day is incredible for them but there are equally fantastic histories and Myths widely believed that would make Chesterton crap up.

The wishfulthinker fall in tears when pronouncing his sacred capitalized worlds: People, Democracy, Equalty Human Rights and so on. In the past, Socialism, Worker Class and such craps motivated the same heart lifts. Today even the Terrorists invoke what they call Democracy with passion.

But in his country, like in any other, the same families alternate in government, with a few exceptions, no matter the kind or regime and the political party. All are equals except that some are more equal than others. Perhaps things are closer to the Ancient Regime rather than to the myths of his utopic society. The more the utopics are in power, the more the ancient regime (that they had in the imagination) returns. Perhaps all such elevated concepts are not part of the reality but ideological constructions and their most known advocates, just power seekers that may deserve the worship of the wishfulthinkers?

I repeat the cult of men to men is the most primitive and dangerous religion. And RELIGION CAN NOT BE AVOIDED: you can not live without a form of religion or religions like you can not live alone.


2013/12/1 Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com>

Government by the Rule of Law (of physics) I would say.

There is much much in the relation between the republican idea of society, and pragmatical atheism of the contractualists Hobbes, rousseau, Locke (let the state work without religion), that later became ideological (atheism is the religion of the state).

The idea of ruling society by laws was probably inspired by newtonian phisics (but not by newtonian theology) and the market economy. what is initially science or experience can become a myth that organize a society.

But this gobernment by rules is a hopeful ideal. In other words, a myth. But a myth necessary for the state religion. Whenever there are laws there is a sovereingh lawyers. "The people" in "democracy" is such lawyer say the modern wishfulthinker. That is nothing but another two myths. hypostases, something that does not exist bu in the mind by an effort of faith for the purpose of social cooperation.

So to summarize, the human mind can not live withouth myths. If he reject the given ones, he invent its own.




2013/12/1 LizR <lizj...@gmail.com>
Because there are no obvious signs of government in the universe, I would say.



On 2 December 2013 10:29, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote:
How can a grown man be an atheist ?

An atheist is a person who believes that the universe can
function without some form of government.

How silly.


Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
See my Leibniz site at
http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough


        
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