On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:15 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

>
> On 04 Dec 2013, at 16:24, Telmo Menezes wrote:
>
> Hi Alberto,
>
> I agree with you that religion cannot be avoided in this sense.
>
> Here's a funny example:
> The Leipzig secular solstice celebration:
> http://lesswrong.com/meetups/u6
>
> Here's a video of some guy who's trying to become a priest for atheists:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vIFloLATxo
> (I still have some hope that the guy is a comedian, in which case he's a
> genius)
>
> One of the most perverse "tricks" that the system played on us, in my
> opinion, was in convincing people to accept that the state should raise the
> kids. Sure, people spend a couple of hours with them between days spent
> working mostly unnecessary jobs, but the bulk of modern education is
> provided by institutionalised school and TV. I agree with the importance of
> teaching kids math, reading comprehension, etc, but school is just
> terrible. It also teaches us to tolerate absurd levels of boredom, to
> replace thinking with accepting authority and it creates an artificial
> reward system, where one can get addicted to a feeling of accomplishment
> without accomplishing anything. Of course, all these things make us more
> compliant in later on accepting lives without meaning.
>
> Democracy is almost funny. People believe in this myth that it enforces
> the "will of the people", but if you ask anyone individually you will find
> that you cannot easily find a person whose opinion ever influenced anything
> whatsoever. It's even hard to have an opinion. The better part of their
> days people are slaves, and when tired they are spoon fed badly disguised
> world views sprinkled over mindless entertainment.
>
> Everyone should have at least one psychedelic experience. This would
> change the world faster and better than any ideology.
>
>
>
> All religions have their psychedelic substances. Christianism is mainly
> wine (Christ blood!), although some pretended that Jesus took magic
> shrooms. Cannabis would already change a lot, and salvia, often called a
> medication to cure atheism (!) could bring much more change. Quite possibly.
>

I heard a guy who researches compared religions make an interesting case
that colourfully wrapped gifts under the christmas tree represent magic
mushrooms -- stemming from a pagan tradition from cold European countries
were magic mushrooms will, indeed, grow under pine trees in winter. Of
course this is just a case where Christianism assimilated a pagan ritual.

Telmo.


>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Telmo.
>
> On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 1:13 PM, Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> Two more remarks:
>>
>> I´m astonished  contemplating how people can contemplate with horror the
>> belief in a god that they thing that it does not exist and accept the
>> belief in worldly lies and praise completely invented myths about their
>> favorite heroes Even if they know that are false. That Kim Jon Il wrote a
>> mean of tree books a day is incredible for them but there are equally
>> fantastic histories and Myths widely believed that would make Chesterton
>> crap up.
>>
>> The wishfulthinker fall in tears when pronouncing his sacred capitalized
>> worlds: People, Democracy, Equalty Human Rights and so on. In the past,
>> Socialism, Worker Class and such craps motivated the same heart lifts.
>> Today even the Terrorists invoke what they call Democracy with passion.
>>
>> But in his country, like in any other, the same families alternate in
>> government, with a few exceptions, no matter the kind or regime and the
>> political party. All are equals except that some are more equal than
>> others. Perhaps things are closer to the Ancient Regime rather than to the
>> myths of his utopic society.  The more the utopics are in power, the more
>> the ancient regime (that they had in the imagination) returns.  Perhaps all
>> such elevated concepts are not part of the reality but ideological
>> constructions and their most known advocates, just power seekers that may
>> deserve the worship of the wishfulthinkers?
>>
>> I repeat the cult of men to men is the most primitive and dangerous
>> religion. And RELIGION CAN NOT BE AVOIDED: you can not live without a form
>> of religion or religions like you can not live alone.
>>
>>
>> 2013/12/1 Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com>
>>
>> Government by the Rule of Law (of physics) I would say.
>>>
>>> There is much much in the relation between the republican idea of
>>> society,  and pragmatical atheism of the contractualists Hobbes, rousseau,
>>> Locke (let the state work without religion), that later became ideological
>>> (atheism is the religion of the state).
>>>
>>> The idea of ruling society by laws was probably inspired by newtonian
>>> phisics (but not by newtonian theology) and the market economy. what is
>>> initially science or experience can become a myth that organize a society.
>>>
>>> But this gobernment by rules is a hopeful ideal. In other words, a myth.
>>> But a myth necessary for the state religion. Whenever there are laws there
>>> is a sovereingh lawyers. "The people" in "democracy" is such lawyer say the
>>> modern wishfulthinker. That is nothing but another two myths. hypostases,
>>> something that does not exist bu in the mind by an effort of faith for the
>>> purpose of social cooperation.
>>>
>>> So to summarize, the human mind can not live withouth myths. If he
>>> reject the given ones, he invent its own.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/12/1 LizR <lizj...@gmail.com>
>>>
>>>> Because there are no obvious signs of government in the universe, I
>>>> would say.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2 December 2013 10:29, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  How can a grown man be an atheist ?
>>>>>
>>>>> An atheist is a person who believes that the universe can
>>>>> function without some form of government.
>>>>>
>>>>> How silly.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
>>>>> See my Leibniz site at
>>>>>  http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Alberto.
>>>
>>
>>
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