On 12/5/2013 5:18 PM, LizR wrote:

On 6 December 2013 08:08, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net <mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>>wrote:## Advertising

The hypothesis is that BHs have entropy the same way as everything else, except that the microscopic degrees of freedom are in spacetime - which isn't understood.So are you saying that black holes have emergent entropy, and that it wouldn't be"visible" if you could zoom in on their microscopic processes (whatever they are), inmuch the same way that you can't see the entropy of a collection of molecules by lookingat the molecules themselves, but only by looking at statistical properties of relativelylarge numbers of them?

That's my understanding of it.

If so, that implies some sort of complicated large-scale organisation on the eventhorizon, as I believe some string theorists have suggested. (I imagine it also hasimplications for the Beckenstein bound and the holographic principle.)

`Yeah, that's Susskinds firewall idea. Just above the event horizon, within a few Planck`

`lengths, the strings corresponding to stuff that fell in are spread over the surface and`

`their degrees of freedom account for the entropy. But the same information also falls`

`into the singularity - which violates the no-cloning theorem. I think Susskind holds`

`that's this is OK since nobody can see the violation. But it's far from settled. The`

`problem is that QM says information should be preserved but GR says it should be lost in a`

`BH. It's widely assumed that GR is wrong and a quantum theory of gravity will show`

`information somehow comes out with the Hawking radiation.`

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