On 12/5/2013 5:18 PM, LizR wrote:
On 6 December 2013 08:08, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net <mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote:

    The hypothesis is that BHs have entropy the same way as everything else, 
except that
    the microscopic degrees of freedom are in spacetime - which isn't 

So are you saying that black holes have emergent entropy, and that it wouldn't be "visible" if you could zoom in on their microscopic processes (whatever they are), in much the same way that you can't see the entropy of a collection of molecules by looking at the molecules themselves, but only by looking at statistical properties of relatively large numbers of them?

That's my understanding of it.

If so, that implies some sort of complicated large-scale organisation on the event horizon, as I believe some string theorists have suggested. (I imagine it also has implications for the Beckenstein bound and the holographic principle.)

Yeah, that's Susskinds firewall idea. Just above the event horizon, within a few Planck lengths, the strings corresponding to stuff that fell in are spread over the surface and their degrees of freedom account for the entropy. But the same information also falls into the singularity - which violates the no-cloning theorem. I think Susskind holds that's this is OK since nobody can see the violation. But it's far from settled. The problem is that QM says information should be preserved but GR says it should be lost in a BH. It's widely assumed that GR is wrong and a quantum theory of gravity will show information somehow comes out with the Hawking radiation.


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