On 12/5/2013 2:35 AM, LizR wrote:
On 5 December 2013 21:53, Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com <mailto:agocor...@gmail.com>> wrote:

    I´m very interested in what you question. One of the wonders of life is how 
a living
    being select relevant information from the environment for their needs. I 
think that
    the aestetic sense is a heavy part of the activity of the mind at the 
unconscious
    level. Form recognition is computation intensive. It is also very puzzling 
for me
    how accurately people recognize intuitively  order or disorder in agreement 
with
    what would be the real entropy calculated in physical terms.

     It seems that the  filtering of information that is not relevant and to 
deal with
    what is relevant has been one of the main evolutionary pressures. A 
recognized
    pattern (for example, a porcelain jar with all its details, can be 
assimilated to a
    macrostate in entropic terms. A broken porcelain jar reduced to dust makes 
it
    undistinguisable from other jars and also unusable for doing a work. For 
example to
    transport water. That is why life needs to use low entropic things that can 
be
    recognized as interesting patterns.


The vase is only distinct from the dust when viewed above a certain level of "coarse graining" - so how does one assign it entropy?

If you consider the phase space of the dust you see that the vase corresponds to only a small part of that and so has a lower entropy. Of course from the thermodynamic standpoint both of these are only tiny parts for statistical mechanics phases space that considers the configurations and momenta of molecules and atoms.


It seems like entropy exists at our level, but not at the bottom level of atoms and so on. Yet a black hole can be assigned an entropy, and you can't get much more fundamental than that.

It's thought to have an entropy because the surface area, in the classical approximation, acts like and entropy (non-decreasing) and then Hawking showed a BH should have temperature. Together the two imply a BH has microscopic degrees of freedom.

It seems to me that there is something missing between the thermodynamic "coarse-grained" idea of entropy and the (presumable fundamental level) black hole entropy. How is that possible, that the same thing exists in two different ways on two different levels, one of which appears to be emergent? (Am I missing something important here?)

The hypothesis is that BHs have entropy the same way as everything else, except that the microscopic degrees of freedom are in spacetime - which isn't understood.

Brent


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

Reply via email to