2013/12/6 Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> > On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Quentin Anciaux <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Science has no dogma, because everything can be discussed and > questionned... > > That is philosophy. Science is more narrow -- and it should be. > Science is empiricism.
Empiricism is part of science, but not all... Not all knowledge can be through empiricism. > It is restricted You restrict it to it... > to the domains of knowledge > where hypothesis can be rejected by performing experiences. But the > idea that all knowledge can be obtained in this fashion is dogma. If you don't dispute it, it would. > I > love science, and I find positivism almost insulting, because it > throws science back to realms of superstition that I find abhorrent. > On the contrary, honest science can be used to dispel ugly falsehoods > (or, as Carl Sagan called them, demons), and I love it for that. > > It is trivially truth that private experience is real -- in fact it is > the thing I am most certain of. The only thing I can be absolutely > certain of. But part of this experience is not communicable, so it > cannot be completely investigated using the scientific method. You say it can't be without proving it, as such I'll stay open to the possibility it can. > This is > so problematic to the proponents of "science as the only acceptable > form of inquiry", that they go as far as rejecting the existence of > first person experience. Stubborn person exists everywhere, they can use science as a cover, that doesn't render their argument correct nor redefine what science is. > This is mysticism of the same level of > absurdity of any silly religious dogma you can think of. > > > On the contrary, religions *must* have some part that can't be discussed, > > Independently of the use of the term "religion", our search for > knowledge must necessarily include parts that cannot be discussed. > You misunderstand what I'm saying... you can discuss these thing... while you can't discuss a dogma and saying you're still following that particular religion who holds that dogma. Quentin > Some serious attempts at communicating private experience take the > form of art, for example. Art is forever imperfect in this regard, but > there is at least pleasure in making the attempt. And maybe some > opportunity for transcendence. As there is opportunity for > transcendence in science and technology. The human experience is not > compartmentalised. There is transcendence in seeing the first space > shuttle take off. It's a moving experience. I dare say religious in > the good sense. > > > you can't say you're catholic if you don't believe jesus was the son of > > god... you can't say you're buddhist and reject what the buddha said. > > But real search for transcendence has nothing to do with court-like > decisions of what you can say or not. You have the same problem with > science. There is science the method of inquiry and science the human > institution. In the latter, there are things you cannot reject -- > things that go beyond the scientific method -- if you want membership. > The lack of compartmentalisation has an ugly side. By fighting > religious fundamentalists, many scientists become fundamentalists > themselves, and close themselves to the serious discussion of certain > hot topics. > > > So no, science has no dogma and is not based on dogma but on hypothesis. > > Science cannot get rid of fundamental ontological and epistemological > assumptions. Pretending that these assumption are not there corrupts > science. > > Telmo. > > > Quentin > > > > > > 2013/12/6 Alberto G. Corona <[email protected]> > > > >> The dogma that "science" (in the very narrow sense used today for such > >> world) is not dogma is the foundation stone of one of the most > sucessful > >> modern religions: scientism. > >> > >> That is wonderful since there is no knowledge possible without initial > >> postulates or "dogmas" as you may call it. This erasure of dogmas of > >> "science" is the most sucessful campaing of disinformation ever. Simply > by > >> discrediting and prohibiting metaphysics and pulling philosophy out of > the > >> sciences. > >> > >> > >> 2013/12/5 Quentin Anciaux <[email protected]> > >>> > >>> A religion is based on dogma, science is not, hence science is not a > >>> religion. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> 2013/12/5 Richard Ruquist <[email protected]> > >>>> > >>>> I believe in science. > >>>> That is my religion. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12:35 PM, John Clark <[email protected]> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 7:13 AM, Alberto G. Corona < > [email protected]> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> > you can not live without a form of religion > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Speak for yourself, I've been living without religion since i was > 12. > >>>>> > >>>>> John K Clark > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. > >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send > >>>>> an email to [email protected]. > >>>>> To post to this group, send email to > [email protected]. > >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. > >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > >>>> an email to [email protected]. > >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > . > >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy > >>> Batty/Rutger Hauer) > >>> > >>> -- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >>> "Everything List" group. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an > >>> email to [email protected]. > >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Alberto. > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >> "Everything List" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an > >> email to [email protected]. > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy > > Batty/Rutger Hauer) > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Everything List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to [email protected]. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy Batty/Rutger Hauer) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
