Liz wrote Dec. 7:
*Could you name a materialistic theory that explains consciousness (or a
theorist who does so) ? I've not come across any who do much of a job
(Dennett for example tries to explain that consciousness doesn't exist,
which doesn't quite cut it for me).*

I don't go for past 'big names' of conventional sciences. In my own
'generalization' of phenomena usualy appllied by diverse authors when they
utter 'Ccness' I arrived at a *NONHUMAN *(take note Roger!) ID: the *Response
to Relations * expandable to all items we could (and could not) think
about. Including thinking animals also the 'self' experiencing human beast.
All at the proper complexity of their characteristics. To "name" a past
theory(ist?) is no evidence for a realistic justification.
I (almost) agree with John KC's quoted par., hadn't he used it in favor of
denigrating religious crap in favor of materialism.
Bruno once wrote to me: "I am more agnostic than you" - otherwise most
people KNOW EVERYTHING (better?).
I (a confessd agnostic) don't have all the answers, but have lots of
questions.

My recent question:
*could the esteemed learned/wise members of this list find better topics to
discuss?*

*I propose the TITLE: The Everything List*.
What is Everything? Definitely not the* physical* inventory the List
started out with originally.
Our "model" of this worldly existence is limited to the so far absorbed
(but by far not digested!) inventory we - sort of - got a glimps of during
our 'thinking' millennia of human animals. We adjusted them continually to
the momentary capabilities of our "mind" (if you condone that expression)
and built everything (?) into our worldview. *Then* New items/ideas emerged
to be absorbed and (mis)understood.
ONE thing stays: we know only a little portion of them all. but 'explain'
everything (taht is what math, or religion is for). If we find a pair of
matching equations (or stories with well crafted revelations(?) -) we call
it the TRUTH and BELIEVE it. (Like e.g. 'random' - the combination beyond
our knowledge of explanations as of today - the only true(?) random I found
so far being in math-puzzles/jokes: "take ANY number..." usually a farce or
joking hidden mistake in the puzzle).

John M.




.



On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 4:38 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 8 December 2013 07:26, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Materialistic theories of consciousness can only describe experience,
>>> not deal with experience itself.
>>>
>>
>> Consciousness theories are a dime a dozen and materialistic theories
>> explain consciousness every bit as well as non-materialist theories. And in
>> the vastly more difficult matter of coming up with intelligence theories
>> materialists are far better and keep getting better every year, while
>> non-materialist try to peddle the exact same useless religious crap they
>> have for millennium.  So why do otherwise smart people believe in this
>> non-materialist claptrap? One reason and one reason only, their mommy and
>> daddy told them it was true when they were still pooping in their pants.
>>
>> Could you name a materialistic theory that explains consciousness (or a
> theorist who does so) ? I've not come across any who do much of a job
> (Dennett for example tries to explain that consciousness doesn't exist,
> which doesn't quite cut it for me).
>
> Thanks!
>
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