On 12/8/2013 1:28 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
No, it's a simple matter of using different words for different things and not muddling
the distinction. The Abrahamic religions make a positive virtue of faith:
"Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of
--- Martin Luther
Every machine who want to be simply correct with herself cannot not tear her eyes out of
his Reason, or if you prefer, cannot avoid discovering the gap between Truth and Proof.
Now, of course, I can recognize that Luther sentence can also be exploited by
"politics", and that is the whole weakness of theology. But that is a reason to be even
more rigorous in that field, not less.
A good course in non confessional theology could list the drawback of the theological
faith, when blind.
“When we come to believe, we have no desire to believe anything else, for we begin by
believing that there is nothing else which we have to believe…. I warn people not to
seek for anything beyond what they came to believe, for that was all they needed to
seek for. In the last resort, however, it is better for you to remain ignorant, for
fear that you come to know what you should not know…. Let curiosity give place to
faith, and glory to salvation. Let them at least be no hindrance, or let them keep
quiet. To know nothing against the Rule [of faith] is to know everything.” ---
Same remark, but here, the "politics" idea seems prevalent (and is bad). the idea to
separate science from theology is responsible for such use of "bad faith".
Today, after listening to the machines, we would say the contrary. Like "if you have
faith, never drop reason, as reason can only be extended by faith, and never been
contradicted. If you feel a contradiction, ask yourself if you have not been abuse by
some politics who want to manipulate you."
"Those who object to the punishment of heresy are like dogs
--- John Calvin
Authoritative argument, I guess.
You identify faith with "blind faith". But "blind faith" is something which exist
because for centuries you were burn alive if you did not have the "blind faith".
Events that were justified and approved by theologians.
Rational Theologians have been persecuted, exiled, banished from science and academies.
That is why there are "pseudo-theologians" approving authoritative violent method of
convicting people. That would stop when we will decide to come back on a bit of
seriousness on the issue. That cannot be done in one day, but listening to the machine
will help. They have very few prejudice, and can hardly be said to defend a religion,
except for their belief in classical logic, but nome forbid to also listening to
intuitionist machine if they want. (That does not make much sense in Platonism, though,
and is equivalent with listening only to the first person (SAGrz) associated to the
machine, and not to the "scientist" (G) associated to the machine).
Blind faith is a remnant of terrorist politics, like the religion has become on some
No it's a remnant of religion - which inspires and justifies terrorist politics.
A remnant of pseudo-religion, due to the fact that we are not yet free to think in that
aera. It is forbidden by atheists and fundamentalist alike.
But you evade the point that these three quotes are by theologians who helped found
religions, Catholocism, Lutheranism, and Calvinism, that are still believed by billions of
people. You are calling these "psuedo-religions", which shows how far your have distorted
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.