On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 11:19 PM, Edgar L. Owen <edgaro...@att.net> wrote:

> Liz,
>
> You claim my theory of time is Newtonian but that just demonstrates your
> complete lack of understanding of the theory...
>
>
Well, this one is at least a few hundred years old: "You disagree only
because it is obvious that you do not understand my theory!"

If anything, Liz is trying to be fair and open-minded. But what's quoted
above is not immune to Smullyan's universal refutation: "that's what YOU
think, of course" ;-)

I sometimes picture a person going through life saying this as often as
they can to anybody they might meet... and then smugly walking away
self-contented. PGC




> Edgar
>
> On Monday, December 30, 2013 5:02:06 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote:
>
>> On 31 December 2013 10:38, John Mikes <jam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Liz,
>>> as a former ed-in-chief of a science magazine (Ion Exchange and
>>> Membranes) I know the difficulties one can run into if trying to get
>>> peer-review approval on "NEW" ideas that do not fit into the conventional
>>> scientific fabric of college courses. I was a risk-taker and provided space
>>> for several new ideas that made sens - to me. ('Let the readership decide
>>> and debate').
>>>
>>
>> There are two things being presented here. One is an idea which is fine
>> in itself - reality is computed. It isn't obviously self-contradictory, and
>> has I think been suggested quite a few times in various flavours (I'm sure
>> Conway must have come up with this, as have Russell Standish, I think, and
>> Bruno of course, plus probably some other people). It's a fairly obvious
>> idea for the age - "it steam-engines when it comes steam engine time" or
>> whatever.
>>
>> The other is a Newtonian theory of time. This contradicts special
>> relativity, and hence is an "extraordinary claim". This claim has not yet
>> had any support that shows its author understands what the problems with it
>> are. Hence it not only "doesn't fit into the scientific fabric of college
>> courses", it flatly contradicts everything we've learned about reality
>> since 1905 - all the experimental confirmation of SR, the whole lot. That
>> should require extraordinary evidence before it is worth considering.
>>
>>>
>>> Sometimes new ideas (versions?) do not fit into the 'reductionistic'
>>> conventional stuff of the Rosenesque MODEL content, limited to the already
>>> known inventory of science etc. While it does not support the 'new' ideas,
>>> it does not prove them wrong by itself, either.
>>>
>>
>> There is no contradiction between Edgar's theory and reductionism, it is
>> a reductionist theory. What proves (or comes very close to proving) Edgar's
>> theory of time wrong is that it contradicts most of 20th century physics,
>> both theoretical and experimental. His theory of computational reality
>> isn't itself rendered wrong by the "known inventory of science" of course.
>> (By the way, your use of these buzz phrases does rather suggest that you
>> are pushing an agenda here. Science is far more than you are trying to make
>> out - it isn't all conventional, blinkered fuddy-duddies dismissing
>> crackpot ideas, but has room for plenty of outrageous speculation - as long
>> as it is properly grounded, doesn't flat-out contradict a century of
>> experimentation, etc.)
>>
>>>
>>> I submitted a paper once with some 'mild' novelty (J. of Consciousness
>>> Sci) and an irate (conservative) reviewer called me a
>>> "homespun fireside philosopher" - an ornamental epitheton I value highly
>>> ever since.
>>>
>>> Always easiest to think your opponents have dismissed your ideas because
>> they are "conservative" (or "bourgeois", or "heretics" or whatever
>> epitheton you wish to apply) -- rather than because just maybe they knew
>> more about the subject, and could see where your ideas were wrong.
>>
>> PS "epitheton" is itself an "ornamental epitheton", I'd say. I do hope it
>> wasn't just a typo!
>>
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