On Jan 6, 2014, at 6:50 AM, "Edgar L. Owen" <edgaro...@att.net> wrote:

Jason,

I'll stick with my definitions, which are quite clear and obvious.

Okay then please define for us:

Event
Present
Simultaneous
Clock time
P-time
Proper time
Coordinate time
Space time

If we don't have common definitions we cannot communicate...

The present moment is the most basic experience (and therefore the most basic verifiable and repeatable empirical observation) of our existence.

Our experience informs us that something exists. It does not inform us that other things do not exist.

This is the primary error of presentism: it assumes only that which is perceived can exist.



99.999% of all humans on earth understand this clearly and unambiguously, with the apparent exception of the members of this list!
:-)


That should tell you something.

Jason


Edgar

On Sunday, January 5, 2014 7:20:05 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote:
Edgar,

It might help if we all used consistent language for "present", "event", "simultaneous", etc. I recommend we use the definitions which Einstein works out (starting on page 2 of his paper):

http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/specrel.pdf

It would avoid a lot of confusion I think, because so far we seem to be talking past each other over what basic words mean.

Jason


On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net> wrote:
Liz,

Yes, of course you are correct. They do it all the time but in the present moment rather than any clock time simultaneity. Without a present moment when do they meet up and compare? Certainly not in their individual clock times which are different.

Edgar

On Sunday, January 5, 2014 4:29:29 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote:
On 6 January 2014 10:16, Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net> wrote:
Liz,

What is explained quite well by relativity is the differing clock times. The fact they differ in the same present moment is not even recognized nor explained by relativity.... It's a basic but totally unexplained assumption....

There is no reason in SR why observers can't meet up and compare their clocks.

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