Arguing from false premises will never lead to truths. Please update your
On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 7:33 PM, Edgar L. Owen <edgaro...@att.net> wrote:
> You are just jumping to that conclusion without actually addressing the
> argument I present. What do you see wrong with my argument, other than that
> you disagree with the conclusion?
> On Wednesday, January 15, 2014 7:21:31 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote:
>> Dear Edgar,
>> There is no such thing as "a location in time". The entire idea of a
>> "dimension of time" is a mental construct that we hang events that we
>> experience and learn about in a sequence. SR and GR do not allow for a
>> unique dimension of time for all observers such that we can say "everything
>> must be at one and only one position in time and traveling through time at
>> c in one direction". It only works for pairs of observers that have
>> identical inertial frames.
>> Transformations of inertial frames do not generally commute. Any time
>> a change in the velocity occurs for an observer, its inertial frame is
>> changes and never again will their clocks completely agree. There may be a
>> momentary congruence of the numbers/readings of the respective clock, but
>> the twins will never again have the same biological age.
>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 7:02 PM, Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net> wrote:
>> Bravo! Someone actually registered some of my arguments, though I would
>> state them slightly differently.
>> The argument in question, that everyone except Brent seems to have
>> missed, is simple.
>> SR requires that everything moves at the speed of light through
>> spacetime. This is NOT just "a useful myth", it's a very important
>> fundamental principle of reality (I call it the STc Principle).
>> This is true of all motions in all frames. It's a universal absolute
>> Now the fact that everything continually moves at the speed of light
>> through spacetime absolutely requires that everything actually moves and
>> continually moves through just TIME at the speed of light in one direction
>> in their own frame. This movement requires there to be an arrow of time,
>> and this principle is the source of the arrow of time and gives the arrow
>> of time a firm physical basis.
>> Second, because everything is always moving through time at the speed of
>> light everything MUST be at one and only one location in time. That present
>> location in time is the present moment, it's a unique privileged moment in
>> (This argument demonstrates only there must be a present moment for every
>> observer. The other argument Brent references is necessary to demonstrate
>> that present moment is universal and common to all observers.) Bravo again
>> Brent, for remembering that one too!
>> Since by the STc Principle everything must be at one and only one
>> position in time and traveling through time at c in one direction, this
>> conclusively falsifies block time.
>> Thus SR conclusively falsifies block time. QED.
>> On Wednesday, January 15, 2014 6:39:48 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
>> On 1/15/2014 2:54 PM, Stephen Paul King wrote:
>> Dear Edgar,
>> ï¿½ I will have to agree with LizR here. SR in fact makes the notion of
>> a present moment a nonsensical concept, as SR shows how there does not
>> exist, nay cannot exist any global frame of simultaneity. This prevents the
>> existence, if SR is correct and good evidence tells us that it is, of any
>> thing like a global present moment.
>> ï¿½ "That dog don't hunt!"
>> But notice that Edgar makes two kinds of arguments:
>> First, the local event argument - if two bodies interact it must be at
>> the same moment (he neglects to to mention that it must also be at the same
>> Second, the continuity argument -
>> if two bodies interact at two different events than at any given time
>> between those two events both bodies exist and this means that they are
>> existing in the same moment, even though they are in different places..
>> Curiously, in his online blog about SR he takes the same approach as
>> Lewis Carrol Epstein in his excellent little book "Relativity
>> Visualized".ï¿½ He notes that everything is always traveling at the speed
>> of light.ï¿½ If you're 'standing still' that means you're just traveling in
>> the time direction.ï¿½ So if you move in the space direction you must give
>> up some speed in the time direction.ï¿½ Epstein calls this a useful myth
>> and doesn't misused it.ï¿½ Edgar assumes that 'time direction' is fixed
>> like Newtonian space.
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