On 16 January 2014 16:44, Stephen Paul King <stephe...@provensecure.com>wrote:

> Dear LizR,
>    But stop and think of the implications of what even Bruno is saying. *Space
> is completely a construction of our minds.* *There is no 3,1 dimensional
> Riemannian manifold out there*. We measure events and our minds put those
> together into tableaux that we communicate about and agree on, because our
> languages, like formal logical system, force the results to obey a set of
> implied rules. We formulate explanations, formulate models and look for
> rules that the models might obey. Hopefully we can make predictions and
> measure something...

Yes, yes, and yes! (Provisionally.) But we do have to account for how that
construction comes out, even so, and the model called SR indicates that it
comes out very like the manifold, and behaves like it, and so on.

I have to change hats sometimes. In a debate on physics, I wear my
relativistic hat (which can be worn at any angle) and insist that we take
account of the space-time manifold. When we get on to metaphysics, of
course, I switch to a possibly nonexistent, or at least illusory hat...

>   I really really like Bruno's notion of an observer. If only we could see
> eye to eye on the definitions of some other concepts... Such as that
> Computation is an *action* or transformation, not a static "being".
> Yes, well that is the eternal, or at least present, "presentism vs
eternalism" debate. Us (provisional) eternalists can't see why
you (provisional) presentists insist on there being a need for this
mysterious change above and beyond what a block multiverse already
provides. Comp is just the ultimate in emergent time (riding on the
shoulders of giants like Newton and Einstein of course - which doesn't make
it true, of course, but does mean that it should be seriously considered).

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