On 1/15/2014 4:38 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
Brent,

Both DO follow if you understand the argument. Why do you think they don't 
follow?

Well the first one is true, if you take time to mean a global coordinate time. But then it's just saying every event can be labelled with a time coordinate. All that takes is that the label be monotonic and continuous along each world line. It' saying that 'everything can get a time label'. But it doesn't say anything about how the label on one worldline relates to labels on a different world line.

The SR requirement that the speed of light be the same in all inertial frames then implies that the labeling along one line *cannot* be uniquely extended to other lines, but must vary according to their relative velocity.

Brent


Edgar

On Wednesday, January 15, 2014 7:27:07 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:

    On 1/15/2014 4:02 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote:

        Brent,

        Bravo! Someone actually registered some of my arguments, though I would 
state
        them slightly differently.

        The argument in question, that everyone except Brent seems to have 
missed, is
        simple.

        SR requires that everything moves at the speed of light through 
spacetime. This
        is NOT just "a useful myth", it's a very important fundamental 
principle of
        reality (I call it the STc Principle).


    It's a commonplace in relativity texts.


        This is true of all motions in all frames. It's a universal absolute 
principle.
        Now the fact that everything continually moves at the speed of light 
through
        spacetime absolutely requires that everything actually moves and 
continually
        moves through just TIME at the speed of light in one direction in their 
own
        frame. This movement requires there to be an arrow of time,


    Not exactly.  It requires that there be a time-axis, but it doesn't say 
anything
    about which way the arrow points.  It only implies that bodies cannot move 
spacelike
    (because when they get up to c they've used all their speed to move through 
space
    and none to move through time).

        and this principle is the source of the arrow of time and gives the 
arrow of
        time a firm physical basis.

        Second, because everything is always moving through time at the speed 
of light
        everything MUST be at one and only one location in time.


    That doesn't follow.

        That present location in time is the present moment, it's a unique 
privileged
        moment in time.


    That doesn't follow.

    Brent


        (This argument demonstrates only there must be a present moment for 
every
        observer. The other argument Brent references is necessary to 
demonstrate that
        present moment is universal and common to all observers.) Bravo again 
Brent, for
        remembering that one too!

        Since by the STc Principle everything must be at one and only one 
position in
        time and traveling through time at c in one direction, this conclusively
        falsifies block time.

        Thus SR conclusively falsifies block time. QED.

        Best,
        Edgar


        On Wednesday, January 15, 2014 6:39:48 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:

            On 1/15/2014 2:54 PM, Stephen Paul King wrote:

                Dear Edgar,

                � I will have to agree with LizR here. SR in fact makes the 
notion of
                a present moment a nonsensical concept, as SR shows how there 
does not
                exist, nay cannot exist any global frame of simultaneity. This 
prevents
                the existence, if SR is correct and good evidence tells us that 
it is,
                of any thing like a global present moment.

                � "That dog don't hunt!"


            But notice that Edgar makes two kinds of arguments:

            First, the local event argument - if two bodies interact it must be 
at the
            same moment (he neglects to to mention that it must also be at the 
same
            place).�

            Second, the continuity argument - if two bodies interact at two 
different
            events than at any given time between those two events both bodies 
exist and
            this means that they are existing in the same moment, even though 
they are
            in different places..

            Curiously, in his online blog about SR he takes the same approach 
as Lewis
            Carrol Epstein in his excellent little book "Relativity

    ...

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