# Re: Tegmark's New Book

On 1/15/2014 4:38 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
Brent,

Both DO follow if you understand the argument. Why do you think they don't
follow?

Well the first one is true, if you take time to mean a global coordinate time. But then it's just saying every event can be labelled with a time coordinate. All that takes is that the label be monotonic and continuous along each world line. It' saying that 'everything can get a time label'. But it doesn't say anything about how the label on one worldline relates to labels on a different world line.

The SR requirement that the speed of light be the same in all inertial frames then implies that the labeling along one line *cannot* be uniquely extended to other lines, but must vary according to their relative velocity.

Brent

Edgar

On Wednesday, January 15, 2014 7:27:07 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:

On 1/15/2014 4:02 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote:

Brent,

Bravo! Someone actually registered some of my arguments, though I would
state
them slightly differently.

The argument in question, that everyone except Brent seems to have
missed, is
simple.

SR requires that everything moves at the speed of light through
spacetime. This
is NOT just "a useful myth", it's a very important fundamental
principle of
reality (I call it the STc Principle).

It's a commonplace in relativity texts.

This is true of all motions in all frames. It's a universal absolute
principle.
Now the fact that everything continually moves at the speed of light
through
spacetime absolutely requires that everything actually moves and
continually
moves through just TIME at the speed of light in one direction in their
own
frame. This movement requires there to be an arrow of time,

Not exactly.  It requires that there be a time-axis, but it doesn't say
anything
about which way the arrow points.  It only implies that bodies cannot move
spacelike
(because when they get up to c they've used all their speed to move through
space
and none to move through time).

and this principle is the source of the arrow of time and gives the
arrow of
time a firm physical basis.

Second, because everything is always moving through time at the speed
of light
everything MUST be at one and only one location in time.

That doesn't follow.

That present location in time is the present moment, it's a unique
privileged
moment in time.

That doesn't follow.

Brent

(This argument demonstrates only there must be a present moment for
every
observer. The other argument Brent references is necessary to
demonstrate that
present moment is universal and common to all observers.) Bravo again
Brent, for
remembering that one too!

Since by the STc Principle everything must be at one and only one
position in
time and traveling through time at c in one direction, this conclusively
falsifies block time.

Thus SR conclusively falsifies block time. QED.

Best,
Edgar

On Wednesday, January 15, 2014 6:39:48 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:

On 1/15/2014 2:54 PM, Stephen Paul King wrote:

Dear Edgar,

ï¿½ I will have to agree with LizR here. SR in fact makes the
notion of
a present moment a nonsensical concept, as SR shows how there
does not
exist, nay cannot exist any global frame of simultaneity. This
prevents
the existence, if SR is correct and good evidence tells us that
it is,
of any thing like a global present moment.

ï¿½ "That dog don't hunt!"

But notice that Edgar makes two kinds of arguments:

First, the local event argument - if two bodies interact it must be
at the
same moment (he neglects to to mention that it must also be at the
same
place).ï¿½

Second, the continuity argument - if two bodies interact at two
different
events than at any given time between those two events both bodies
exist and
this means that they are existing in the same moment, even though
they are
in different places..

Curiously, in his online blog about SR he takes the same approach
as Lewis
Carrol Epstein in his excellent little book "Relativity

...

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.