On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 4:14 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Stephen, > > I have a 2c worth on block time, too :) > > On 17 January 2014 09:33, Stephen Paul King <stephe...@provensecure.com>wrote: > >> Dear Jason, >> On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Stephen Paul King < >>> stephe...@provensecure.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Jason, >>>> >>>> I do not think that block time is a coherent idea. It assumes >>>> something impossible: that a unique foliation of space-time can be defined >>>> that correlates to a specific experience of an entity that is said to be >>>> embedded in the block. >>>> >>> >>> It makes no claims that such a foliation must be unique, all possible >>> foliations are equally valid, and correspond to the observed orderings of >>> events from different reference frames. >>> >> >> Each foliation would correspond to a set of trajectories and a light cone >> structure, no? Time, defined as a ordering of events vanishes in such. I >> get that. >> > > The first part is right, but within a given foliation, there is an > ordering of events. It's only when comparing foliations that you get > different orders. (I believe this is called proper time or something?) Time > doesn't vanish within a foliation. > Right, it doesn't vanish within a foliation, but if we add or integrate them together it does. If i got the math right... > >>> >>>> My argument is that the entire way that time is considered has problems >>>> and both presentism and eternalism are not even wrong. Their definitions of >>>> "existence" and "time" are wrong. Existence is not observable, only >>>> properties are observable. >>>> >>> >>> How can something have properties unless it exists? >>> >> >> Existence is a priori -eternal-, properties are a posteriori - after the >> fact of measurement. >> > > Yes, this is the problem with the "ontological argument" (and probably > with "Edgar's first postulate" too). > I am trying to use avoid the problem by using a ontological foundation that is eternal, thus no absolute notions of "before" or "after". Neutral existence, having no particular properties by having ALL properties. >>> >>>> Time is not just an ordering of events that can be discovered after >>>> the fact of the events, it is also a measure of the duration of process >>>> that transforms one event into another. >>>> >>> >>> In block time it is just a dimension. >>> >> >> Not if there isn't a unique ordering of events in the Block! >> > > There is a unique ordering along each observer's worldline, and a unique > LOCATION for each event within the block. Foliations are slices thru the > block at various angles, as I'm sure you know, and drawing a hyperplane > thru a 4D manifold at different angles withh allow it to intersect the > points within the block (events) in a different order. So the positions of > events are unique, but we can construct foliations which "encounter" them > in a different order. Since a foliation corresponds to a plane of > simultaneity for a given observer, the observer will see events in the > order defined by the foliation. (Another way to look at this which may be a > bit more intuitive is that an observer sees events when they intersect his > light cone, and different observers have different light cones, and hence > may see events in a different order). > That is all correct, The point is that there is no prefered foliation, no special narrative for all the events. > >>> >>>> Clocks do not measure time, they measure relative durations. Time is >>>> not a direct observable quantity. >>>> >>> >>> Just like space.. >>> >> >> right. >> >>> >>> >>>> If it was then it would be the canonical conjugate of energy. >>>> >>> >>> How is time different from space in your view? >>> >> >> Space has no possible canonical conjugate. >> > > I thought momentum was space's cc, and energy was time's??? Or am I > getting mixed up with something else? > You got it right. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/TBc_y2MZV5c/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- Kindest Regards, Stephen Paul King Senior Researcher Mobile: (864) 567-3099 stephe...@provensecure.com http://www.provensecure.us/ “This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law or may be constituted as attorney work product. 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