-----Original Message-----
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Russell Standish
Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 11:23 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Discovery of quantum vibrations in brain microtubules confirms
Hameroff/Penrose consciousness theory basis

On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 11:11:57PM -0800, Chris de Morsella wrote:
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Russell 
> Standish
> Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 9:42 PM
> To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Discovery of quantum vibrations in brain microtubules 
> confirms Hameroff/Penrose consciousness theory basis
> 
> On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 05:56:23PM +1300, LizR wrote:
> > On 18 January 2014 13:33, Russell Standish <li...@hpcoders.com.au>
wrote:
> > 
> > > On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 04:08:08PM -0800, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
> > > > Russell,
> > > >
> > > > PS: On second thought maybe we don't agree completely. Though 
> > > > free will
> > > is
> > > > quantum random based (we agree on that), it doesn't mean that it 
> > > > is "irrational".
> > > >
> > > > If human actions and the actions of other biological organisms 
> > > > weren't basically rational they couldn't function or survive in 
> > > > the real actual world they live in....
> > >
> > > That is not true. Read up on the concept of Machiavellian 
> > > Intelligence. A modicum of irrationality is just what it takes to 
> > > get ahead in the world, it makes one less predictable to one's
> competitors.
> > >
> > 
> > Russell, what you are saying here is that unpredictability is 
> > rational, not that "irrationality is what it takes to get ahead" !
> 
> >>No, I'm not. Rational agents are entirely predictable. They always 
> >>choose
> the best course of action, or fail to make a choice at all ("it does 
> not compute!"). They cannot behave unpredictably.
> 
> This definition pretty much eliminates the 7 billion plus naked 
> (clothed) apes mucking this place up from the running... oh well.
> 
> 

Exactly! Humans are sometimes rational, but much less so than economists
presume.

That is an understatement :)
Furthermore, human's often overlay splendid rationales and elaborate deeply
layered justifications over what at their core -- beneath the reasoned
discourse etc. -- is naked irrationality; very often utterly unseen by the
individual in whom it is expressing. We are so often blind to our own
irrational behaviors, believing ourselves to be creatures of reason -- and
we are on occasion I agree. The upfront visible irrational behavior is
mirrored by much harder to grapple with ghost irrationalities that seem
rational and supported by reason, at least superficially. These can slip by
with much more ease and germinate within our minds.
And an idea, or notional construct, once incorporated into the unquestioned
realm of that which is "known" can spawn entire cascades of actions and
ideas that ultimately flow from it, even if at several degrees of remove.
The unexamined, unknown irrational mind is far more insidious and difficult
to pin down or even recognize.


-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prof Russell Standish                  Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
Principal, High Performance Coders
Visiting Professor of Mathematics      hpco...@hpcoders.com.au
University of New South Wales          http://www.hpcoders.com.au
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