Dear LizR, You and Bruno have often complained that my postings lack rigor... For a nice formal representation of Heraclitean "streams" click here<http://books.google.com/books?id=vurIJEFut8QC&pg=PA55&lpg=PA55&dq=jon+barwise+streams+hypersets&source=bl&ots=eYJKhMJR1-&sig=GD2rTwSNtcLpqnm2K3eqE24THNo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Y4rlUu2tCIW-sQSf74HYBw&ved=0CGMQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=jon%20barwise%20streams%20hypersets&f=false> and read the bit about hypersets. BTW, this is a concept almost identical to what Lou Kauffman uses in his notion of eigenforms.
On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Stephen Paul King < stephe...@provensecure.com> wrote: > Dear LizR, > > > On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 5:14 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 26 January 2014 23:03, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: >>> >>> On 25 Jan 2014, at 14:15, David Nyman wrote: >>> >>> On 25 January 2014 09:21, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: >>> >>>> Maybe the difference in intuition is because she doesn't think about it >>>> in Hoyle's "universalist" way, although ISTM this is implicit in the >>>> heuristic (i.e. the "guy" is the unique and non-simultaneous "owner" of the >>>> experiences in all the pigeon holes). Without the flashlight, I think what >>>> people do is think of themselves as situated in some pigeon hole or other >>>> and then, as it were, imaginatively "select" some continuation sequence of >>>> pigeon holes from there. >>>> >>>> >>>> Yes. But we can still believe in the "universalist view", through the >>>> amnesia and the return in the universal baby state, which then can be >>>> related to the universal consciousness of the universal person. In that >>>> sense we are right now the same person, but relatively amnesic of all >>>> particularities which distinguish us. >>>> >>> >>> Yes indeed, it is the amnesia that "compartmentalises" us. But it's the >>> "right now" that strikes me (and, I presume, struck Hoyle) as something of >>> an an equivocation, at least in the pigeon hole analogy. >>> >>> >>> I gues that's why some people want time, if not present-time, as a >>> primitive. I can understand the feeling, but I think that with comp it is a >>> sort of delusion. >>> >>> Watching "Memento" gives some idea of what's really going on, by showing >> what life would be like after a partial breakdown of how the brain fools us >> into thinking we have continuous existence. It isn't too much of a stretch >> from imagining living in 5 minute segments to realising that we could >> equally well live in instants, with all of our memory being what's there >> right now, what's available to us in that instant, that pgeonhole. After >> all, logically, given the assumption of locality in physics, that's all >> we'd *expect* to be available. >> >> "'Because, like all of us in our daily lives, you're stuck with a >> grotesque and absurd illusion.' >> >> 'How's that?' >> >> 'The idea of time as an ever-rolling stream. The thing which is supposed >> to bear all its sons away. There's one thing quite certain in this >> business: the idea of time as a steady progression from past to future is >> wrong. I know very well we feel this way about it subjectively. But we're >> the victims of a confidence trick... >> >> Fred Hoyle, "October the First is Too Late" >> > > HA! Hoyle here undermines the idea that we can obtain time merely from the > well ordering of integers! I focus on the action, ever-rolling stream, the > "progression"; the ordering of events are the mere products of the stream, > not the origin of the streaming. > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/TBc_y2MZV5c/unsubscribe >> . >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > > > -- > > Kindest Regards, > > Stephen Paul King > > Senior Researcher > > Mobile: (864) 567-3099 > > stephe...@provensecure.com > > http://www.provensecure.us/ > > > "This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of > the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain > information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential and > exempt from disclosure under applicable law or may be constituted as > attorney work product. 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